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Watchmen WARNING (no spoliers)

Discussion in 'Movie, TV, & Video Games' started by Steel, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Palma

    Palma I am chaos

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    Even if the story sucked, it still can be a great show. Story doesn't necessarily dictate if a show is compelling, provocative, or entertaining. But I do agree that it looks like at least this season will break away from pointless conflicts just to produce episodes, like nearly every other show does
     
  2. Miz

    Miz mortality, ka, and the Tower

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    I enjoyed it! Excited for Sunday!
    --- Post Added -- Oct 24, 2019, ---
    So can we talk about the graphic novel? I’m a dumb dumb. Should have researched, but I guess it’s cool I watched the first episode and then looked up info. This show is taking place like 24 years after the graphic novel events. My dumb ass thought it was going to be the graphic novel events. This is way cooler cause it’s all new to me.
    Kind of is weird that Rorschach is the enemy now.
    I’m way more excited now that I’ve discovered this.
    On a side note I’m not sure what’s happened but since I’ve really been focusing pretty much on reading over the past ten years I’ve found I struggle with following video. I need to start watching more shows (good shows), because shit I really had to pay attention last night. With a book I can move at my own pace, but with that I really had to take in a lot. Maybe I’m getting older? Maybe it’s mental health? But I need to work on getting better and hopefully this will help because it is pretty fast paced and I was slow to follow at times. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I’m not dumb either. I was like a cave man. The images frightened and confused me. In a good way.
     
  3. Ninjastix

    Ninjastix Damn Gina Site Donor

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    This is just my interpretation so don't let me dissuade you from yours, but Rorschach was never the hero. To me Watchmen is Veidt's story. Not Jon's. Not Dan's. It's about Adrian and can the smartest person humanity has to offer come up with a solution that can actually save humanity? The story answers this with the implication of "no".

    So I'm a huge Warhammer 40k (this is short tangent) nerd. And one of the main aspect of the 40k mythos is the plight of humanity. There's a great novel that covers the Alpha Legion called "Legion". They're one of the original chapters of Space Marines (genetically modified super soldier with specific gene trait specialties) and this book series covers many of the founding chapters before and during The Horus Heresy. The Alpha Legion epitomize subterfuge, manipulation, clandestine operations, intelligence and counter-intelligence, and so they approach every engagement with the requisite due diligence already having been performed. Near the end of the book they are granted what may or may not be an accurate revelation about the future of humanity, whereby brothers will betray brothers with half falling to the powers of Chaos. During this whole revelation thing the "leaders" of the Alpha Legion express their prior findings on humanity and that is - the only solution for sustainability is living within the faults and limits of our humanity. Notions of Utopias or consensus are impossible as it concerns human beings. This is a driving reason for the use of deceit and deception by the Alpha Legion.

    I'm summarizing and paraphrasing the thesis, the novel does a much better job (imagine that?) than me at coloring the logic of the Alpha Legion and helping you understand why they've made the moves they're making. The goal cannot the total unity of humanity because it's fundamentally impossible according to them. They use things like assassinations or misinformation to make controlled burns which contain what would be a much larger, out of control wildfire.

    Now back to Watchmen, there are parallels here with the way Veidt sees or doesn't see the world. Veidt thought he could fix the problem. First with tackling street crime. The Comedian illustrated the futility of this when the threat of global nuclear annihilation hung over the world, not some city. Veidt's hubris STILL leads him to think he can solve the problem because fundamentally he either believe he has the power to solve it OR humanity has the capacity to achieve it. For me Watchmen was never about the gritty or realistic take on crime fighters so much as it was about this postulation about what people can or can't do for themselves.

    What I like about the new show, at least in the first episode, is the theme of the illusion of progress. You can only contain on deceit. The thing with a deception however is that there's the need for constant upkeep and this, this is what I love about fatalistic story telling. There's just never enough energy or resources or capacity or desire or willpower to sustain our delusions forever.

    And so we go right back to tearing one another apart. Because that's what we are.

    If the show continues along those lines, I'll love it to death.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
    Miz likes this.
  4. Miz

    Miz mortality, ka, and the Tower

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...26872/watchmen-hbo-backlash-politics-sjw-race

    Might be some episode 1 spoilers.

    @Ninjastix ive kind of forgot the graphic novel. I think I read it about 10-15 years ago. I remember I enjoyed it b/c I hadn’t read comics since my youth (I was in my 20’s.). I was in the military when I read it so I guarantee my thoughts were a bit different. I don’t know if I liked it enough to reread even though I don’t think it took more than a few days to read.
    I’m excited for the show. The wife and I needed something till the Witcher comes out.
    Didn’t @ILJO have a Rorschach av?
     
  5. ILJO

    ILJO Member Site Donor

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    Yes I did.
     
  6. Miz

    Miz mortality, ka, and the Tower

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    Did you watch the episode?
     
  7. ILJO

    ILJO Member Site Donor

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    Yeah, I did. It feels a bit too early to say if the show is going to be good or not. It was all building and laying the foundation.

    I hope it turns out great, but we'll see what happens.
     
    Miz likes this.
  8. Palma

    Palma I am chaos

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    I think it's already the best show currently on television, every scene is well thought out, purposefully and meaningful.

    Watch TWD and then the Watchmen after, it's just too hard to get through that pile of shit after watching a good HBO show
     
  9. Bran

    Bran The wolf dead.

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    Finishing up the third episode right now. Been very happy with this show thus far.
     
  10. Bran

    Bran The wolf dead.

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    Just watched the newest episode. I don’t necessarily know that I can latch on to @Palma ’s sentiment that this is the best show on tv, but it’s so goddamn good. I genuinely feel each episode is better than it’s predecessor and it’s really leaving me wanting more.
     
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  11. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Well-Known Member

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    To be fair the walking dead has gone to shit. It’s extremely hard for a show that’s in its 10th season to still be on top.
     
  12. Bran

    Bran The wolf dead.

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    If we’re really being fair, it was never great. Just successful and popular
     
  13. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Well-Known Member

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    The first season was really good. But what turned me off was the wife, I hated her in that and prison break. She’s terrible.
     
  14. Bran

    Bran The wolf dead.

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    The show was good for a while, but the format of dual seasoning it each year, so you have two eight episodes seasons a year instead of one 13 episode season a year led to a ton of filler. You need two banger premieres and finales a year, so you burn big ideas twice as fast, especially when one finale is weighted to have a bigger impact than the other. And I never got to the Negan stuff in the comics, but the Governor stuff in the comics lasted like a quarter of the time that it did on tv, because they liked the character and wanted to milk him for ratings. Plenty of highs on that show, but the lows really make it hard to come back to.
     
  15. Palma

    Palma I am chaos

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    Every episode keeps my strong opinion on it being the best current show. I really like the Mandalorian, but it just isn't on this level of originality (in terms of the story), character development, presentation, and generally being compelling and provocative. I get super fucking high on Sunday nights and it's wildly disturbing at times. But the imagery and mystery keep me entertained. I read a cool article about Robert Redford being president since Nixon and how that divided and enraged the country. Such a cool way to comment and be critical of our reality
    --- Post Added -- Nov 27, 2019, ---
    I'm not saying anything other than it's easier for me to get into the walking dead if I watch it first. I watch all kinds of garbage, but i have to be in a certain mood or have a certain perspective to enjoy it
    --- Post Added -- Nov 27, 2019, ---
     
  16. Bran

    Bran The wolf dead.

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    I love Mandalorian, but this is a decidedly better show by a wide margin. I just blame my hesitance off of calling it the best is because of how good Better Call Saul, the Boys, Ozark and one or two others are. I’m not comparing it to other shows, I’m critiquing it as a show with the impossible task of making a true sequel to Watchmen, in a different medium, with only the vitriol of its creator, and somehow making it both aesthetically pleasing and incredibly intriguing. It’s a show that shouldn’t have been finished being pitched, but in its execution, I’ve yet to find a genuine flaw in the show.

    The new episode didn’t move the plot forward at all, but it somehow managed to be maybe the best episode yet while also building a ton of backstory. And it wasn’t just a flashback episode. It was perfect
     
  17. Palma

    Palma I am chaos

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    I think it redefined the plot. Hooded justice is a black man in white face and a mask. It's well thought out of a new level; and it happens to be a new "Villain" and the current protagonist's grandfather and, pedigree. It brings up the scene to me where he beats the shit out of the comedian. It makes more sense to me now
     

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