Watchmen WARNING (no spoliers) (1 Viewer)

Palma

I am chaos
Well I'm happy to report I'm right as fuck.

I did enjoy the first episode but they are setting up an AWFUL lot. There are a lot of spinning plates here. Political divides, racial divides, geo-political divides, extra-dimensional divides! But it's interesting. It's extremely interesting. It's a gosh-darn interesting take on this world. It took an established property and did something new with it. I'm fucking shocked. A story.. advanced? In 2019? What magical world of possibilities did I stumble into?

Also the music is so sexy. This Trent Reznor guy ain't half bad.
Even if the story sucked, it still can be a great show. Story doesn't necessarily dictate if a show is compelling, provocative, or entertaining. But I do agree that it looks like at least this season will break away from pointless conflicts just to produce episodes, like nearly every other show does
 

Miz

mortality, ka, and the Tower
I enjoyed it! Excited for Sunday!
[DOUBLEPOST=1571915909,1571885380][/DOUBLEPOST]
I enjoyed it! Excited for Sunday!
So can we talk about the graphic novel? I’m a dumb dumb. Should have researched, but I guess it’s cool I watched the first episode and then looked up info. This show is taking place like 24 years after the graphic novel events. My dumb ass thought it was going to be the graphic novel events. This is way cooler cause it’s all new to me.
Kind of is weird that Rorschach is the enemy now.
I’m way more excited now that I’ve discovered this.
On a side note I’m not sure what’s happened but since I’ve really been focusing pretty much on reading over the past ten years I’ve found I struggle with following video. I need to start watching more shows (good shows), because shit I really had to pay attention last night. With a book I can move at my own pace, but with that I really had to take in a lot. Maybe I’m getting older? Maybe it’s mental health? But I need to work on getting better and hopefully this will help because it is pretty fast paced and I was slow to follow at times. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I’m not dumb either. I was like a cave man. The images frightened and confused me. In a good way.
 

Ninjastix

The Fat Mamba
Site Donor
This is just my interpretation so don't let me dissuade you from yours, but Rorschach was never the hero. To me Watchmen is Veidt's story. Not Jon's. Not Dan's. It's about Adrian and can the smartest person humanity has to offer come up with a solution that can actually save humanity? The story answers this with the implication of "no".

So I'm a huge Warhammer 40k (this is short tangent) nerd. And one of the main aspect of the 40k mythos is the plight of humanity. There's a great novel that covers the Alpha Legion called "Legion". They're one of the original chapters of Space Marines (genetically modified super soldier with specific gene trait specialties) and this book series covers many of the founding chapters before and during The Horus Heresy. The Alpha Legion epitomize subterfuge, manipulation, clandestine operations, intelligence and counter-intelligence, and so they approach every engagement with the requisite due diligence already having been performed. Near the end of the book they are granted what may or may not be an accurate revelation about the future of humanity, whereby brothers will betray brothers with half falling to the powers of Chaos. During this whole revelation thing the "leaders" of the Alpha Legion express their prior findings on humanity and that is - the only solution for sustainability is living within the faults and limits of our humanity. Notions of Utopias or consensus are impossible as it concerns human beings. This is a driving reason for the use of deceit and deception by the Alpha Legion.

I'm summarizing and paraphrasing the thesis, the novel does a much better job (imagine that?) than me at coloring the logic of the Alpha Legion and helping you understand why they've made the moves they're making. The goal cannot the total unity of humanity because it's fundamentally impossible according to them. They use things like assassinations or misinformation to make controlled burns which contain what would be a much larger, out of control wildfire.

Now back to Watchmen, there are parallels here with the way Veidt sees or doesn't see the world. Veidt thought he could fix the problem. First with tackling street crime. The Comedian illustrated the futility of this when the threat of global nuclear annihilation hung over the world, not some city. Veidt's hubris STILL leads him to think he can solve the problem because fundamentally he either believe he has the power to solve it OR humanity has the capacity to achieve it. For me Watchmen was never about the gritty or realistic take on crime fighters so much as it was about this postulation about what people can or can't do for themselves.

What I like about the new show, at least in the first episode, is the theme of the illusion of progress. You can only contain on deceit. The thing with a deception however is that there's the need for constant upkeep and this, this is what I love about fatalistic story telling. There's just never enough energy or resources or capacity or desire or willpower to sustain our delusions forever.

And so we go right back to tearing one another apart. Because that's what we are.

If the show continues along those lines, I'll love it to death.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Miz

Miz

mortality, ka, and the Tower
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...26872/watchmen-hbo-backlash-politics-sjw-race

Might be some episode 1 spoilers.

@Ninjastix ive kind of forgot the graphic novel. I think I read it about 10-15 years ago. I remember I enjoyed it b/c I hadn’t read comics since my youth (I was in my 20’s.). I was in the military when I read it so I guarantee my thoughts were a bit different. I don’t know if I liked it enough to reread even though I don’t think it took more than a few days to read.
I’m excited for the show. The wife and I needed something till the Witcher comes out.
Didn’t @ILJO have a Rorschach av?
 

ILJO

Member
Site Donor
Did you watch the episode?
Yeah, I did. It feels a bit too early to say if the show is going to be good or not. It was all building and laying the foundation.

I hope it turns out great, but we'll see what happens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Miz

Palma

I am chaos
I think it's already the best show currently on television, every scene is well thought out, purposefully and meaningful.

Watch TWD and then the Watchmen after, it's just too hard to get through that pile of shit after watching a good HBO show
 

Bran

The wolf dead.
Finishing up the third episode right now. Been very happy with this show thus far.
 

Bran

The wolf dead.
Just watched the newest episode. I don’t necessarily know that I can latch on to @Palma ’s sentiment that this is the best show on tv, but it’s so goddamn good. I genuinely feel each episode is better than it’s predecessor and it’s really leaving me wanting more.
 

Clark Kent

Well-Known Member
I think it's already the best show currently on television, every scene is well thought out, purposefully and meaningful.

Watch TWD and then the Watchmen after, it's just too hard to get through that pile of shit after watching a good HBO show
To be fair the walking dead has gone to shit. It’s extremely hard for a show that’s in its 10th season to still be on top.
 

Bran

The wolf dead.
The first season was really good. But what turned me off was the wife, I hated her in that and prison break. She’s terrible.
The show was good for a while, but the format of dual seasoning it each year, so you have two eight episodes seasons a year instead of one 13 episode season a year led to a ton of filler. You need two banger premieres and finales a year, so you burn big ideas twice as fast, especially when one finale is weighted to have a bigger impact than the other. And I never got to the Negan stuff in the comics, but the Governor stuff in the comics lasted like a quarter of the time that it did on tv, because they liked the character and wanted to milk him for ratings. Plenty of highs on that show, but the lows really make it hard to come back to.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Just watched the newest episode. I don’t necessarily know that I can latch on to @Palma ’s sentiment that this is the best show on tv, but it’s so goddamn good. I genuinely feel each episode is better than it’s predecessor and it’s really leaving me wanting more.
Every episode keeps my strong opinion on it being the best current show. I really like the Mandalorian, but it just isn't on this level of originality (in terms of the story), character development, presentation, and generally being compelling and provocative. I get super fucking high on Sunday nights and it's wildly disturbing at times. But the imagery and mystery keep me entertained. I read a cool article about Robert Redford being president since Nixon and how that divided and enraged the country. Such a cool way to comment and be critical of our reality
[DOUBLEPOST=1574836840,1574836701][/DOUBLEPOST]
To be fair the walking dead has gone to shit. It’s extremely hard for a show that’s in its 10th season to still be on top.
I'm not saying anything other than it's easier for me to get into the walking dead if I watch it first. I watch all kinds of garbage, but i have to be in a certain mood or have a certain perspective to enjoy it
[DOUBLEPOST=1574836872]
 

Bran

The wolf dead.
Every episode keeps my strong opinion on it being the best current show. I really like the Mandalorian, but it just isn't on this level of originality (in terms of the story), character development, presentation, and generally being compelling and provocative. I get super fucking high on Sunday nights and it's wildly disturbing at times. But the imagery and mystery keep me entertained. I read a cool article about Robert Redford being president since Nixon and how that divided and enraged the country. Such a cool way to comment and be critical of our reality
I love Mandalorian, but this is a decidedly better show by a wide margin. I just blame my hesitance off of calling it the best is because of how good Better Call Saul, the Boys, Ozark and one or two others are. I’m not comparing it to other shows, I’m critiquing it as a show with the impossible task of making a true sequel to Watchmen, in a different medium, with only the vitriol of its creator, and somehow making it both aesthetically pleasing and incredibly intriguing. It’s a show that shouldn’t have been finished being pitched, but in its execution, I’ve yet to find a genuine flaw in the show.

The new episode didn’t move the plot forward at all, but it somehow managed to be maybe the best episode yet while also building a ton of backstory. And it wasn’t just a flashback episode. It was perfect
 

Palma

I am chaos
I love Mandalorian, but this is a decidedly better show by a wide margin. I just blame my hesitance off of calling it the best is because of how good Better Call Saul, the Boys, Ozark and one or two others are. I’m not comparing it to other shows, I’m critiquing it as a show with the impossible task of making a true sequel to Watchmen, in a different medium, with only the vitriol of its creator, and somehow making it both aesthetically pleasing and incredibly intriguing. It’s a show that shouldn’t have been finished being pitched, but in its execution, I’ve yet to find a genuine flaw in the show.

The new episode didn’t move the plot forward at all, but it somehow managed to be maybe the best episode yet while also building a ton of backstory. And it wasn’t just a flashback episode. It was perfect
I think it redefined the plot. Hooded justice is a black man in white face and a mask. It's well thought out of a new level; and it happens to be a new "Villain" and the current protagonist's grandfather and, pedigree. It brings up the scene to me where he beats the shit out of the comedian. It makes more sense to me now
 

Ninjastix

The Fat Mamba
Site Donor
I'm more stunned than anything. It so thoughtful recontextualized the Watchmen to a viewpoint that's far more in tune with the history of the United States. It is genius-level interpretation. It's exploring race and racism in America at The Wire levels. It's showing the layers of institutionalized behavior and response stemming from our history as a nation. It is surpassing the source material by exploring the subject manner in such an incredibly thought provoking way while continually weaving it into a fully realized Watchmen universe that comes off as completely natural.

The one demerit I can levy against the show is that I would unequivocally suggest having read the source material. The continuity is astounding but seeing how they create a new, coherent direction for this story to go is absolutely phenomenal. But there's something far more important that this show is doing. It's going back to the roots of Science Fiction by using it as a way to explore sensitive, uncomfortable, offensive, or taboo subjects. This is what makes the original Watchmen so great, it explores themes of humanity in a way that are unsettling and thought provoking. The violent nature of human beings. The cold ambivalence of God. The ethics (or lack thereof) of Science. Addiction and repression. The show, even though incredibly faithful to the source material, is more so faithful to the practice of laying out humanity's issues in fantastical way so we can see the issues we face from a different perspective.

I don't want to shit on Black Panther. People of color have every right to be and have been excited over a superhero featuring a predominantly black cast in roles of power, authority, and heroism. But that movie is just a movie. It doesn't explore the questions it raises, at all. It kills the questions before they've had a chance to resonate and it relies on tropes to finish it's story. Black Panther ultimately feels like a shallow film that was an unintended success because of the it being so thoroughly embraced by black audiences.

Watchmen raises more incendiary questions and frames them in such a way where the questions weigh on you till you sink. There no easy answers, there are no consequence free solutions, there are only more questions, there's only ever more problems. We as a nation have still yet to reconcile our past. It still affects our present, it will continue to affect our future. The lies we tell ourselves, the masks we hide behind lest we risk vulnerability in a hostile world is a logical response but one that prevents us from progressing and overcoming.

It is nothing short of genius. Yearning for the past while not realizing that our pain is born from the very same past we're trying to escape in the future. Fucking. Perfect.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Members online

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Kano wrote on Karen's profile.
Are you the Karen from the internet?
I'll come running to tie your shoes.
God damn your righteous hand
I was talking like two hands knocking, yelling "let me in, let me in, please come out."

Forum statistics

Threads
41,756
Messages
1,063,517
Members
2,305
Latest member
SmithCracks
Top