"UFC 258: Usman vs. Burns" [Post Fight] Discussion *Spoilers*

Anchorpunch

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None of it is really safe. They are just more effective and less detectable. Over time it’s the same as smoking or unhealthy eating. You’re chances of cancer or other complications rises.

to me, the overall unhealthy aspect is besides the point, as where nearly every person in this country chooses very unhealthy habits. I just don’t hold judgment against people who cheat at sports as much as I do about how people behave as individuals.
Weirdly, the risk of steroids may not be that great. There's a bunch of medical research on it and even a 60 Minutes (or one of those shows) that had to admit it. It's a matter of the right drug, via the right method, at the right level. So, for example, the levels body builders take are horrible for you, as are the pills (versus injectables) apparently.

Interestingly, there's some reason to believe that the classic recovery dose might actually be safe.

EDIT: That said, I think I land somewhere between the two of you. I agree that it's an unsafe sport. Period. But that doesn't mean that there aren't unreasonable risks. Like, I love the idea of an electric fence to keep the fight off the cage, but really, it's messed up to do that. And I know, I have a homeless fight club and we believe in experimentation.

So there are limits. The limit is your decision, but my call would be any more than where your testosterone is outside thresholds. You can rock some 21-year-old energy, but not Hulk-vs-Wolverine energy.
 

Palma

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Weirdly, the risk of steroids may not be that great. There's a bunch of medical research on it and even a 60 Minutes (or one of those shows) that had to admit it. It's a matter of the right drug, via the right method, at the right level. So, for example, the levels body builders take are horrible for you, as are the pills (versus injectables) apparently.

Interestingly, there's some reason to believe that the classic recovery dose might actually be safe.

EDIT: That said, I think I land somewhere between the two of you. I agree that it's an unsafe sport. Period. But that doesn't mean that there aren't unreasonable risks. Like, I love the idea of an electric fence to keep the fight off the cage, but really, it's messed up to do that. And I know, I have a homeless fight club and we believe in experimentation.

So there are limits. The limit is your decision, but my call would be any more than where your testosterone is outside thresholds. You can rock some 21-year-old energy, but not Hulk-vs-Wolverine energy.
Doing a cycle of steroids isn’t really dangerous in itself, but high testosterone levels generally suppress the immune system. Studies also suggest that steroids also produce free radicals.

Im not talking about doing it to recover from an infection, I’m talking about abuse in order to see athletic results over a long period of time (Jon Jones is probably a good example). Over time you will increase your risk of cancer, but most people who die from natural causes related to steroids seems to be from heart disease.

But I don’t give a shit, and not because I don’t care about people. But because we all do something (if not a lot of things) that contribute to us developing cancer or heart disease.
 

Ct_L33T

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I can hardly believe that nobody is talking about how Usman was literally kicking Buddies' ass for a full minute. I've never seen some shit like that before,
 

ATJ-Lucko

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looked to me that burns was throwing everything he had in rd 1 and gassed himself, he had no intention of going 5 rounds with Usman, plus those jabs of Usman was doing major damage.
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Ct_L33T

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looked to me that burns was throwing everything he had in rd 1 and gassed himself, he had no intention of going 5 rounds with Usman, plus those jabs of Usman was doing major damage.
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Compare records all you want, one thing for sure is that Usman is a far more exciting champion to watch than GSP ever was. I'm so happy the lay n pray era is behind us.
 

Palma

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Steroids are unsafe for the person standing across the cage/ring from the user, at a disadvantage in a fist fight, taking brain damage.

What are you guys even talking about.
It’s not any more dangerous than without it. Prove me wrong, lol
 

Afro

The Autumn Wind is a Raider
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Steroids are unsafe for the person standing across the cage/ring from the user, at a disadvantage in a fist fight, taking brain damage.

What are you guys even talking about.
 

Noise

Ruido
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It’s not any more dangerous than without it. Prove me wrong, lol
It's a simple matter of having a literal physical advantage than someone else via cheating.

I don't even think the conversation of PEDs in combat sports is as simple as they're wrong and we're right or something; I think there's a fascinating case to be made on "letting science in," so to speak. There's a legitimate case for it, imo; but when the fact of the matter is one fighter adhering to the rules and the other is some limp dick fraud who claims not to speak English and es normal or pulsing – yea, calling it out shouldn't bring about some existential crisis on the sport.

Who cares if they cheat?
The People's Republic of China and crooked judges agree with you; why, then, even watch the sport? Can't defer to the lowest denominator of nihilism or whatever to defend the likes of Andy Silva* and Juice Jones. Well, I mean, you can – but remember this whenever you're not happy with the outcome of a fight or someone cheats at anything, anywhere, ever lol.
 

ATJ-Lucko

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Compare records all you want, one thing for sure is that Usman is a far more exciting champion to watch than GSP ever was. I'm so happy the lay n pray era is behind us.
GSP was exciting then came the serra ko and he went with a ultra conservative safe fighting style. GSP is still the goat imo, he did it for so long. I think Usman would be that kind of fighter GSP was but if not for his knees being shot.
 

GingerPowerBottom

mortality, ka, and the Tower
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I’ve never been a cheater and I’m a lifelong sports player, and I coach martial arts 4 nights a week, but cheating is a part of life. It’s gamesmanship. It’s exciting to beat the cheater. Just my opinion. Also note I grew up in a time where Arnold, Sly, and the Ultimate Warrior were taking the juice to the max. Then my cardinal loving ass cheered for Mark McGuire to hit 70 home runs in the most exciting juiced up home run derby with Sammy Sosa. So yeah I guess I’m biased and on the dark side. I’ve enjoyed steroids with never doing them myself. Always learning about myself.
 

Noise

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I don't think it's necessary to take that broad of a step back (e.g. everyone lies; cheating's a part of life; we're all dying anyway; whatever) to see how one fighter adhering to the rules specific to PEDs vs. one that chooses to not is bullshit.
 

GingerPowerBottom

mortality, ka, and the Tower
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Another thing is, and maybe I’m a dirt bag, but if I was in their shoes I’m not sure what I’d do. I think of it in football terms. I like and played football when I was young. Had I had the opportunity to be a college football player ( I didn't have to worry about that cause I quit after junior high to focus on basketball and I’m a frail ginger) who knows what I’d have taken. I guess I’m not one to judge cause I’m not sure what I’d have done in their place.
 

Noise

Ruido
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Yea, I mean – like I've said before, there's an huge case to be made for PEDs. Frankly, when you look at it objectively, it's one hell of a marketing campaign that's been done against their use. It's kinda bizarre that science has been undercut like that. And hell, when the stakes are millions and millions of dollars and you're doing it to garner generational wealth for your family – I get that.

But own that shit, lol.

To lie or dance around it with stories of limp dick syndrome or pulsing and all the other horse shit that we've heard before – Christ. Not that it would change the fact that one guy adhered to a specific contracted set of rules and the other didn't – still a scumbag shit to do. But still, go ahead and own the ugly nature of it wholeheartedly. Es not normal, so to say.
 

Palma

I am chaos
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Location
Sacramento, CA
It's a simple matter of having a literal physical advantage than someone else via cheating.

I don't even think the conversation of PEDs in combat sports is as simple as they're wrong and we're right or something; I think there's a fascinating case to be made on "letting science in," so to speak. There's a legitimate case for it, imo; but when the fact of the matter is one fighter adhering to the rules and the other is some limp dick fraud who claims not to speak English and es normal or pulsing – yea, calling it out shouldn't bring about some existential crisis on the sport.



The People's Republic of China and crooked judges agree with you; why, then, even watch the sport? Can't defer to the lowest denominator of nihilism or whatever to defend the likes of Andy Silva* and Juice Jones. Well, I mean, you can – but remember this whenever you're not happy with the outcome of a fight or someone cheats at anything, anywhere, ever lol.
To me there is a huge difference between a fighter trying to cheat and a corrupt organization. I don’t see the parallel between the two.
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I don't think it's necessary to take that broad of a step back (e.g. everyone lies; cheating's a part of life; we're all dying anyway; whatever) to see how one fighter adhering to the rules specific to PEDs vs. one that chooses to not is bullshit.
That’s why they have random testing. Lol, we are talking about the ones that did get caught after all.
 

ATJ-Lucko

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Post automatically merged:

I’ve never been a cheater and I’m a lifelong sports player, and I coach martial arts 4 nights a week, but cheating is a part of life. It’s gamesmanship. It’s exciting to beat the cheater. Just my opinion. Also note I grew up in a time where Arnold, Sly, and the Ultimate Warrior were taking the juice to the max. Then my cardinal loving ass cheered for Mark McGuire to hit 70 home runs in the most exciting juiced up home run derby with Sammy Sosa. So yeah I guess I’m biased and on the dark side. I’ve enjoyed steroids with never doing them myself. Always learning about myself.
baseball is far more exciting with ped's.
 

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