Rose Namajunas: I'm Fighting For Freedom

Palma

I am chaos
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Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
Isn't it amusing how the post WWII Red Scare propaganda still finds it's way into younger folks who are decades removed from McCarthyism and the Cold War?
It doesn’t bother me that China is communist country. It bothers me how they control their citizens through intimidation, force, and misinformation. It also bothers me that they are taking control over Hong Kong, have Muslim concentration camps, and are basically committing Genocide in Nepal. It also bothers me that their “values” are influencing our media and content our children watch.
 

nbm02ss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Given the USA's record in relation to it's own citizens, immigrants, and foreign policies in places like the Middle East and South America, I'm certainly not comfortable speculating what goes on in countries that are painted as enemies by the US government especially when the only window into those countries is via Western media; it's a little too glass house-ish.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
Given the USA's record in relation to it's own citizens, immigrants, and foreign policies in places like the Middle East and South America, I'm certainly not comfortable speculating what goes on in countries that are painted as enemies by the US government especially when the only window into those countries is via Western media; it's a little too glass house-ish.
Uhhh... yeah. We have access to outside media sources.

You’re saying China isn’t currently doing any of these things?
 

nbm02ss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
I'm not saying the US is perfect, but looking at current civil and human rights abuses... 2021 USA versus China is pretty stark.
Given the response by multiple law enforcement agencies to the protests here at home, the voter surpression reported during the election cycle, our support of Saudi led genocide in Yemen, ramping of detained people along the border with Mexico, and this little bit of information that I came across yesterday, I don't agree.

I feel confident about the claims I've made regarding the USA, but I honestly haven't researched much into the claims of Chinese government. I'm not trying to stick up for China, or anything like that, I'm just claiming ignorance because I don't know, and I feel like it's a little harder to parse what information is out there due to anti-Communist sentiment that is pervasive in the West due to decades of indoctrination; the kind that might lead a young lady to turn a prize fight into a Rocky IV narrative.

I'm bowing out.
 
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strife

I
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Location
Richmond, VA
Isn't it amusing how the post WWII Red Scare propaganda still finds it's way into younger folks who are decades removed from McCarthyism and the Cold War?
Probably better for the political threads so take it there and your pompousness. In general Russia just brought 100,000 troops to Ukraine and China continues to genocide Ulghuir's, Putin just banned more trans rights and had his only political opponent poisoned, tortured, and jailed, China fires on protestors currently and was the ground 0 for covid, the hate towards China and Russia are warranted as much as any other country, fuck China and Russia
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
Given the response by multiple law enforcement agencies to the protests here at home, the voter surpression reported during the election cycle, our support of Saudi led genocide in Yemen, ramping of detained people along the border with Mexico, and this little bit of information that I came across yesterday, I don't agree.

I feel confident about the claims I've made regarding the USA, but I honestly haven't researched much into the claims of Chinese government. I'm not trying to stick up for China, or anything like that, I'm just claiming ignorance because I don't know, and I feel like it's a little harder to parse what information is out there due to anti-Communist sentiment that is pervasive in the West due to decades of indoctrination; the kind that might lead a young lady to turn a prize fight into a Rocky IV narrative.

I'm bowing out.
I don’t disagree that this country is beyond fucked up (on every level), but the fundamental difference between China and America’s Atrocities are that Ameirica’s are not completely aligned under a single government action. Our political landscape, government actions, and social climate are all intertwined but are also independently demonic.

You can narrow every fucked up thing that happens with China to a small handful of people that carefully and strategically design a greater plan.

Chalking it up to decades of Cold War fear propaganda is a lazy argument, considering no one is talking about Cuba, Vietnam and Laois.

North Korea and China have set very brutal standards regardless of their political and economic framework.
 

Anchorpunch

Well-Known Member
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Nov 29, 2014
I don’t disagree that this country is beyond fucked up (on every level), but the fundamental difference between China and America’s Atrocities are that Ameirica’s are not completely aligned under a single government action. Our political landscape, government actions, and social climate are all intertwined but are also independently demonic.

You can narrow every fucked up thing that happens with China to a small handful of people that carefully and strategically design a greater plan.

Chalking it up to decades of Cold War fear propaganda is a lazy argument, considering no one is talking about Cuba, Vietnam and Laois.

North Korea and China have set very brutal standards regardless of their political and economic framework.
Wait, China literally disappears people who fight for human rights. You can't possibly be saying the US is in 2021 committing the kinds of abuses China is. Right? Because there's a base difference of kind long before we get into whether or not a small group of people are running the show.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
Wait, China literally disappears people who fight for human rights. You can't possibly be saying the US is in 2021 committing the kinds of abuses China is. Right? Because there's a base difference of kind long before we get into whether or not a small group of people are running the show.
I can’t tell if you’re serious or sarcastic.
 

Anchorpunch

Well-Known Member
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I can’t tell if you’re serious or sarcastic.
This time I'm actually being serious. But I love that you get I'm often super sarcastic. So here's what confuses me: The United States has many race and economic issues, I don't in any way deny them. But we have freedom of speech and religion. To the extent police are murdering minorities, they are assholes getting away with a crime, not soldiers carrying out direct orders. I am extremely fortunate to live in America. I would absolutely not want to live in China and I say that without judgement of Chinese people but with significant judgement of the government of China.

My biggest issue with what you posted is that you seem to be implying what makes the US better is that we do the same things but without a single party behind it. We do NOT do the same things.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
This time I'm actually being serious. But I love that you get I'm often super sarcastic. So here's what confuses me: The United States has many race and economic issues, I don't in any way deny them. But we have freedom of speech and religion. To the extent police are murdering minorities, they are assholes getting away with a crime, not soldiers carrying out direct orders. I am extremely fortunate to live in America. I would absolutely not want to live in China and I say that without judgement of Chinese people but with significant judgement of the government of China.

My biggest issue with what you posted is that you seem to be implying what makes the US better is that we do the same things but without a single party behind it. We do NOT do the same things.
I’m saying there is a fundamental difference of the Means.

You’re projecting an implication.

The Chinese government is inexcusably abhorrent, all in the name of global competition and dominance. I can go on an on about how terrible it is (maybe read my earlier post on why China bothers me.)

The US Government is completely corrupt. Our political system is corrupt. Our news media is sensationalized for the sake of being entertaining. Our society is gross and obscene. The wealthiest people in this country continue to gain more power and more wealth at the expense of the masses, and there is nothing to indicate that this will ever be balanced enough to where working people can have a normal life without massive amounts of debt.

Im not making an argument on whether it’s better to be Chinese citizen or an American citizen. That’s a dumb fucking argument.

I do have the opinion that we don’t live in a Great country even if we are “Free.” Saying I’d rather live here than China is like saying I’d rather get hit by car than fall into an active volcano.
 

Anchorpunch

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I’m saying there is a fundamental difference of the Means.

You’re projecting an implication.

The Chinese government is inexcusably abhorrent, all in the name of global competition and dominance. I can go on an on about how terrible it is (maybe read my earlier post on why China bothers me.)

The US Government is completely corrupt. Our political system is corrupt. Our news media is sensationalized for the sake of being entertaining. Our society is gross and obscene. The wealthiest people in this country continue to gain more power and more wealth at the expense of the masses, and there is nothing to indicate that this will ever be balanced enough to where working people can have a normal life without massive amounts of debt.

Im not making an argument on whether it’s better to be Chinese citizen or an American citizen. That’s a dumb fucking argument.

I do have the opinion that we don’t live in a Great country even if we are “Free.” Saying I’d rather live here than China is like saying I’d rather get hit by car than fall into an active volcano.
I think you underestimate the human rights abuses taking place today in China.
 

Ninjastix

The Fat Mamba
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Raleigh
I think you underestimate the human rights abuses taking place today in China.
I think you underestimate the one's taking place in the United States.

That statement in no way condones or un-implicates China in human rights violations and atrocities. But if you think the span of human rights violations is limited to police brutality, then you're extremely uninformed.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
I think you underestimate the human rights abuses taking place today in China.
No I’m not. Lol, how do you jump to another baseless conclusion?

And China’s human right abuses are also taking place in other countries surrounding China. If you’re gonna say I’m getting it wrong at least you can get it right.
 

Anchorpunch

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No I’m not. Lol, how do you jump to another baseless conclusion?

And China’s human right abuses are also taking place in other countries surrounding China. If you’re gonna say I’m getting it wrong at least you can get it right.
Why would surrounding countries be relevant. I'm mostly focused on how they treat citizens, as that is one bar to measure. It's not remotely the same.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
Why would surrounding countries be relevant. I'm mostly focused on how they treat citizens, as that is one bar to measure. It's not remotely the same.
Maybe you should say Citizen Rights Abuse then.

lol, I’m legitimately baffled with your conflict with my posts.

Here is my very first post in this thread.

It doesn’t bother me that China is communist country. It bothers me how they control their citizens through intimidation, force, and misinformation. It also bothers me that they are taking control over Hong Kong, have Muslim concentration camps, and are basically committing Genocide in Nepal. It also bothers me that their “values” are influencing our media and content our children watch.
What is our disagreement? Because it seems as if we have a similar opinion.
 

Anchorpunch

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Nov 29, 2014
Maybe you should say Citizen Rights Abuse then.

lol, I’m legitimately baffled with your conflict with my posts.

Here is my very first post in this thread.



What is our disagreement? Because it seems as if we have a similar opinion.
I don't think we have huge disagreements. But I recall your car/volcano analogy. That seemed to be "hey, I'm fuckrd either way" and I think that's unfair. No one in the states is,for example, saying "surprise, not drinking alcohol is a crime so you'll spend the rest of your life in a labor camp!"
 

Ct_L33T

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Location
Atlanta, Ga
Also, in a time of hightened anti-asian sentiment, I just can't see any positives in what Rose is doing here.
 
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GingerPowerBottom

mortality, ka, and the Tower
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Rose is one of my faves. I honestly haven’t seen much of the champ save highlights, but she seems like an exciting fighter. Could be a great fight. Everyone thought JJ was gonna maul Rose, so you never know.
As far as what she said I read an article about it on espn and I think she explained more of what she was thinking. I skimmed it, but it didn’t seem as bad as the above from what I recall. When politics and mma collide. A bad combo ex. Tito.
 

Palma

I am chaos
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
I don't think we have huge disagreements. But I recall your car/volcano analogy. That seemed to be "hey, I'm fuckrd either way" and I think that's unfair. No one in the states is,for example, saying "surprise, not drinking alcohol is a crime so you'll spend the rest of your life in a labor camp!"
I take it you’re a white man. Because there are women in this country that are terrified to let their sons walk down the street.

And clearly my analogy went right over your head. In one instance you might walk away, possibly go to the hospital, or die and the other your instantly incinerated. Both are bad, but one is obviously worse than the other.

Here’s the deal, is it better to be a Chinese citizen or an American citizen? Well, that completely depends on who you are. You tell me: is it better to be an owner of a factory in Beijing or a homeless Vietnam War vet that has dementia? Obviously, for the general population it’s better to be an American citizen, but to blanket both groups into some kind of dichotomy is just lazy logic.

I’m critical of the Chinese government (apparently more than you), but I’m not naive in thinking that this country doesn’t have parallel human right issues. We’re putting people in camps, the government is killing our own citizens (yes, the local government is still the government and should be held to the same standard as another government’s Military in relation to their citizens), and yes people are getting abducted by the government for their political beliefs and disappearing.

I don’t think you fully understand what is happening here or in China even though you have a very strong and judgmental opinion with people that don’t 100% agree with you.
 

Nebraska

Poindexter For President
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TFW when some of us argued that Conor was setting all this BS in motion by calling Siver a “Nazi” and Nate a “cholo” in the name of fight promotion...
 

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