Oberlin professor who was critical of Israel put on leave

cheeseflosser

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No it isn't.

She is free from PROSECUTION BY THE GOVERNMENT to say as she will. She is not free of the standards of conduct from her employer.
 

Hassquatch

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No it isn't.

She is free from PROSECUTION BY THE GOVERNMENT to say as she will. She is not free of the standards of conduct from her employer.
What did she say that's anti-semitic? She was critical of and questioning the Israeli government and various people with ties to Israel.
 

cheeseflosser

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That's up to her employer and any code she is held to as part of her job.

The point is, her freedom of speech wasn't violated.
 

Hassquatch

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That's up to her employer and any code she is held to as part of her job.

The point is, her freedom of speech wasn't violated.
You're right about the freedom of speech/government prosecution. I was better off saying her opinions, theories, and research were being stifled by the college. My point was it's bullshit to label what she said as anti-semitism. She didn't say anything against Jewish culture or heritage. It was specific to Israeli government and persons with ties to that government. We can criticize our government or anyone other but Israel is off limits??
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I can't tell if the first post is some odd defense of Putin.
Comparison not defense. What is there to defend? Calling out slants towards him or Russia is not defending them.
 

cheeseflosser

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I read through everything I could find on her and can only come to one conclusion- She's an idiot, tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist who likes to shit on Israel and the US Government.

Professors occupy an important position in developing young and malleable minds. If the school thinks her views and unfounded statements are not in line with their values, she should be removed or disciplined. Codes of conduct require people who are representative of an institution to uphold that institution's values even when not working.

It's really as simple as that.
 

ATJ-Lucko

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You cannot say anything remotely critical of Israel or any of its polices without being called anti-Semitic.
 

cheeseflosser

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Or gay- homophobic
Or black- racist
Or trannies- transphobic
Or muslims- islamaphobic

On and on. Don't act like this is fucking isolated to any one group. The only people you can openly criticize are white Appalachian Christian males. Fuck those guys.
 
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ATJ-Lucko

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Or gay- homophobic
Or black- racist
Or trannies- transphobic
Or muslims- islamaphobic

On and on. Don't act like this is fucking isolated to any one group. The only people you can openly criticize are white Appalachian Christian males. Fuck those guys.
Oh no you can be all the things you mentioned and you can run and win an election, be critical of Israel and you are persona non grata. The left will attack you and the evangelical right will go after you plus the Jews run the media, that's why you never hear of the horrible crimes Israel commits.
 

cheeseflosser

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I hear about these so-called crimes all the time from pussies who don't have to live under the same circumstances they do.

(This should ruffle some pussy hairs)
 

Hassquatch

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I read through everything I could find on her and can only come to one conclusion- She's an idiot, tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist who likes to shit on Israel and the US Government.

Professors occupy an important position in developing young and malleable minds. If the school thinks her views and unfounded statements are not in line with their values, she should be removed or disciplined. Codes of conduct require people who are representative of an institution to uphold that institution's values even when not working.

It's really as simple as that.
"Free thinkers are dangerous"
 

Neganomics

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"Free thinkers are dangerous"
I don't think I agree with that interpretation of what cheese was saying.

Being a free thinker is not the same as being a conspiracy theorist. The difference is whether or not you can substantiate your claims and provide evidence.

And I think what he said about universities is spot-on. Universities have mission statements and lists of values. It's one of the things that you consider when applying to schools as a student or an instructor, and it's one of the things that the schools use when selecting applicants. If your values and those of the university are not aligned, then they have the right as institutions to dismiss you on a case-by-case basis.

I do think one of the most important elements of intellectualism is the frequent challenging of one's viewpoints. But those challenges should be legitimate and argue actual viable alternatives. If that is not the case (i.e. conspiracy theories not rooted in evidence or reality), then there's really no place for it in academia other than examining why it's a weak way of thinking and arguing.
 

Hassquatch

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I don't think I agree with that interpretation of what cheese was saying.

Being a free thinker is not the same as being a conspiracy theorist. The difference is whether or not you can substantiate your claims and provide evidence.

And I think what he said about universities is spot-on. Universities have mission statements and lists of values. It's one of the things that you consider when applying to schools as a student or an instructor, and it's one of the things that the schools use when selecting applicants. If your values and those of the university are not aligned, then they have the right as institutions to dismiss you on a case-by-case basis.

I do think one of the most important elements of intellectualism is the frequent challenging of one's viewpoints. But those challenges should be legitimate and argue actual viable alternatives. If that is not the case (i.e. conspiracy theories not rooted in evidence or reality), then there's really no place for it in academia other than examining why it's a weak way of thinking and arguing.
She wasn't criticizing an ethnicity, rather government practices of certain countries.

Question stands though, if she said same about Putin/Russian gov't, would this have happened?
 

Neganomics

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She wasn't criticizing an ethnicity, rather government practices of certain countries.

Question stands though, if she said same about Putin/Russian gov't, would this have happened?
I'm not familiar with this particular case. I haven't read about what was said, or how many times it was said, or the nature of the reasoning behind her statements. So I can't answer your question.

I was commenting on your interpretation of cheeseflosser's post. Not all criticism of things that are usually not criticized counts as "free thinking". And not all punitive action taken by a university is an attack on free thinking or free speech. Free thinking is not dangerous, and is not the same as conspiracy theories.
 

cheeseflosser

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At first, I was addressing what was wrongly considered an attack on free speech. It obviously was not.

Secondly, I read what she had written, shared, posted as far back as I could.

She is not a free thinker nor is she a skeptic. She is a conspiracy theorist.

Skepticism is a tool employed by the educator and the free thinker. Skepticism is healthy and breeds life-long learning and commitment

Conspiracy theory is the tool of the fear mongering dictator or instructor.

The stark difference is that a skeptic can be shown and accept reason to reinforce actual theory. The conspiracy theorist cannot ever accept proof that negates his/her theory; no matter how reasonable, proven, and tangible.
 

Hassquatch

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At first, I was addressing what was wrongly considered an attack on free speech. It obviously was not.

Secondly, I read what she had written, shared, posted as far back as I could.

She is not a free thinker nor is she a skeptic. She is a conspiracy theorist.

Skepticism is a tool employed by the educator and the free thinker. Skepticism is healthy and breeds life-long learning and commitment

Conspiracy theory is the tool of the fear mongering dictator or instructor.

The stark difference is that a skeptic can be shown and accept reason to reinforce actual theory. The conspiracy theorist cannot ever accept proof that negates his/her theory; no matter how reasonable, proven, and tangible.
The only true "conspiracy theories" are ones where official stories do not answer all the questions, inconsistencies, and occurrences from whatever event is in question. Raising questions about inconsistencies is not wrong. The Earth is still flat? Does the sun revolve around us?
 

Neganomics

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The only true "conspiracy theories" are ones where official stories do not answer all the questions, inconsistencies, and occurrences from whatever event is in question. Raising questions about inconsistencies is not wrong. The Earth is still flat? Does the sun revolve around us?
The intellectual/free thinker asks "Is there something else going on here?" and then conducts research using credible sources.

The conspiracy theorist states "There is something else going on here." and then does no research or cites non-credible sources.
 

Hassquatch

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The intellectual/free thinker asks "Is there something else going on here?" and then conducts research using credible sources.

The conspiracy theorist states "There is something else going on here." and then does no research or cites non-credible sources.
Not arguing that.
 

Sniggles

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If Jews were about 2.5 percent of the population and were about 60 percent of Hollywood chiefs, they might well be said to be extremely predominant in that sector.
 

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