Libertarianism: What is it, why is it unique, and how would it actually work?

Ct_L33T

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Location
Atlanta, Ga
This is a thread to discuss the merits of this philosophy in practice. For the sake of discussion, NO PERSONAL INSULTS, NO MEMES, and NO BITCHING. Don't use this topic to campaign for any politicians, but instead fully articulate your original thoughts in relation to libertarian ideas/goals.

Meaningful Topics for discussion: Education, Criminal Justice, Housing, Healthcare/Public Health, Economics.

This is a video which more or less objectively summarizes libertarianism for newcomers.

 
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Ninjastix

The Fat Mamba
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Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
Raleigh
I don't ascribe to minimalist government and never will. It's the one institution (in a democracy) that people can actually influence for their benefit. The one. There's no other institution that allows for the will of citizens to determine the direction of their society.

If people didn't form societies.. sure.. I could entertain Libertarianism. But we form groups and then bigger groups form collectives of people, property, and assets and then we have societies. Society not bound to a system of governance is going to conform to some measure of totalitarianism because that's the pathway of least resistance. Everyone left to their own devices makes the same mistake of Communism, it assumes that people have the same levels of ambition and are well enough to not to impose upon others.

Could you adopt ideas from Libertarianism? Sure, but that would still require some regulatory body or agency. And where would such an institution derive its mandate? From the people right?

People. Plural. Not individuals. People do not live in bubbles. And even on Islands people live together. I just don't see the practical implementation of an individualistic political system of non-governance. Probably why it doesn't exist.
 

Miz

mortality, ka, and the Tower
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
I don’t know much about this but it would be nice not to need big brother, but unfortunately people are not all together good. Sure there are good people but just look at society right now. Society needs to be on the watch for the bad people. We can’t let them win. We need governed, unfortunately. I’m only the master of me. The minute I become master of someone else shit falls apart. I need something bigger than myself to govern.
 

jesusatemyhotdog

Welcome to the machine.
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Location
Canadian Shield
Libertarian political problems:
  • What is spontaneous order?
  • Why are unions and protest groups not considered spontaneous ordering?
  • What is the threshold of acceptable interference for law and order?
  • Whose exercise of liberty takes priority when there is an inevitable conflict?
  • How could government as it stands be drawn down while maintaining law and order short of an oppressive authoritarian regime (the vanguard party problem of communism)?
  • Etc.

Libertarian economic problems:
  • What is production?
  • What is value?
  • How does individualistic meritocracy work in the face of beginning inequalities?
  • How is currency supported domestically?
  • How to withdraw US currency from its position as world money?
  • How to pay the costs of that withdrawal?
  • Etc.


Communism's fraternal twin.
 
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jesusatemyhotdog

Welcome to the machine.
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Aug 29, 2008
Location
Canadian Shield
Humans are a greedy, selfish species.
I kind of take Rousseau's view on that matter: greed was not an inherent driving factor until we organized in societies. By saying that, I meant the idea of enough took priority over accumulation in our purest state. It's obviously nothing more than a thought experiment, but it's an important one.
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Then there are the issues of reconciling the ideas of territorial sovereignty, war, etc within the ideology.
 

Dimson

Your tears don't fall...
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
The best way to show it is in a meme. Because it is all listed there. This meme and she who shall not be named are why I joined the Libertarians.
20200811_161533.jpg
 

Kano

My New Challenge
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Location
Icebox of the Nation
see on the Republican side where it says "Right to Work" most of the union members I know and a lot of Democrats I know call what they are proposing "Right to work for Less"
 

Dimson

Your tears don't fall...
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Delete his comment and let him try again please.


Please articulate your thoughts thoroughly, using your own words, or just don't post. If we can't abide by these guidelines then this thread is pointless.
I am not taking the time to type that shit all out. I deleted all candidate info.
 

Poindexter

Reputation: ∞
Staff member
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Location
NYC
Delete his comment and let him try again please.
We don't really delete or censor threads/posts if we can help it. Given that he won't follow your simple suggestions to facilitate a better conversation, it underlines his character, and that his posts are possibly just that, pointless. I'll refrain from name calling as you asked, but hopefully I've laid out my stance regarding him. Did he break the rule "don't be a douche" by immediately disregarding your request...I guess we can wait for the consensus on that.
 

Ninjastix

The Fat Mamba
Site Donor
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
Raleigh
Libertarian political problems:
  • What is spontaneous order?
  • Why are unions and protest groups not considered spontaneous ordering?
  • What is the threshold of acceptable interference for law and order?
  • Whose exercise of liberty takes priority when there is an inevitable conflict?
  • Etc.

Libertarian economic problems:
  • What is production?
  • What is value?
  • How does individualistic meritocracy work in the face of beginning inequalities?
  • How could government as it stands be drawn down while maintaining law and order short of an oppressive authoritarian regime (the vanguard party problem of communism)?
  • How is currency supported domestically?
  • How to withdraw US currency from its position as world money?
  • How to pay the costs of that withdrawal? d
  • Etc.


Communism's fraternal twin.
I absolutely think you could call a system of government for a nation "Libertarianism".. but it wouldn't actually be Libertarianism. It's not unlike China being Communist but bending their economic policies to be something quasi-antithetical to Communism. They have an implemented social-communism that's just Totalitarianism.

Any political system is going to have to solve practical issues but starting with the idea that you can't have strong centralized government to answer the points in JAMHD post is a great illustration of a fantasy. It reminds me of the economics discussion in the movie Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield.

YouTube that shit.
 

Ct_L33T

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Location
Atlanta, Ga
I am not taking the time to type that shit all out. I deleted all candidate info.
Don't be that guy. I created this thread with the hope of creating a genuine learning environment, that only works if everybody puts forth the necessary effort to articulate their thoughts.

I advise you and everyone else to not post or respond to memes.
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This is an article created by Douglas N. Harris, a non-resident senior fellow for the Brown Center on Education policy.
It goes into great detail about the relationship between the "free market" and our current Education system, providing links to evidence-based scholarly journals which he uses as examples to substantiate his arguments on voucher programs and tax credits with relation to parent choice. Overall, this article makes the case for a "managed competition" approach to education.

In summary, "If there is any market that would benefit from a role for government, it is the market for schooling. A system of managed competition, with varying designs in different types of locations, can provide the accountability, accessibility, transparency, coordination, and enforcement necessary to make this very unusual market work for all children."


Education reform is where libertarian strategy appears to be in step, lock & key with the current administration, spearheaded by Betsy Devos, and is a large reason why I think a libertarian approach would further entrench systemic racism. Mr. Harris does an excellent job of articulating this point although he didn't explicitly mention systemic racism.
 
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