Headphones

Ninjastix

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Well just demo'ing them now and what is thus far surprising is that they sound better (initially) on Bluetooth than wire?
That would be a first for me. It makes sense most times because Bluetooth headsets build in their own dac/amp but I've just not experienced it directly given what I own.

Gonna use them on a call at 2:30 to test the mics. They're small, comfy, light but not weightless. I really dig this fake leather and the padding is quite good. On-ear I'm pretty sure my ears are gonna get hot but with music playing I can't hear shit in my environment. Even as I'm typing this I can't hear the keys going with the volume at 70%. So solid noise insulation for an on-ear.

I should note I also stream on Amazon HD so large 16 and 24-bit files, and that's what I'm testing. Thus far I'm very impressed because on Bluetooth things usually take a power hit but shit woke up. I'll test it with my dongle DAC and Desktop DAC later.

I'm curious how the mics be.
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Mics not so great on the Bluetooth but it comes with a custom wire (brown) with a mic and that was fine.

@ILJO I probably undersold the Focal Listen Wireless but I worry about tastes. I love these French fuckers but you have to know that you're not going to feel the bass. You'll hear it. It's there but it's much more mid and high focused. I taper the mids and highs back a notch and elevate the bass on my EQ. And I use custom Earpads.

With all that ^ for me.. they're a god damn steal at 220/230. Though I'm also using Dekoni nuggets with them as well but that's a separate discussion.
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Really liking this sound. The bass growls but doesn't seem to bleed. It's plenty controlled thus far and the vocals come through nice and clear. Mids are recessed but that's what I prefer. This is not a Bose sound but it's not a Beats sound either. This is a V tune with controlled bass and clear highs. The sound stage is definitely closer than over-ear closed-backs. That's probably worth a consideration if you prefer more open sounding staging. Details are quality. Listening to Tom Petty and I hear the totality of his voice, he's not just squeaky or nasally. The highs are clean but not sharp. Seems like they're tuned to drop after 4k. Most people, especially the yuuts, are going to prefer that. I prefer that with my old man hearing so..

Full endorsement on the Marshall 3s. For the price these sound a lot more expensive than they are. But I have no idea what he reliability will be. They seem well built and I do like the included cables. What they lack in a premium feel they make up for by being thicc.

Comfort may vary depending on how big your head is, whether you wear glasses, and if your ears get hot. While wearing I'm moving my glasses out from behind my ear. The clamp is strong but doesn't appear to be harsh, however I have a big ass head. That may not be your experience. The pads are very comfortable though. And my ears aren't getting too hot.. they get hotter in my Brainwavz so that's unexpected.

On-ear is not as comfortable as over ear for me personally but for good sound I'm happy to compromise. These have great Bluetooth sound and I don't normally fuck with Bluetooth that isn't in-ear. These I'd take out. Or commute with. I don't know if they'd do all day comfort. I could probably do an hour or two at a time.

Oh and the volume is plenty loud.
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@Poindexter this is for you:

 
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ILJO

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Welp, I fucked up my back, so I'm out of commission for a couple days. On the bright side, I have time to focus on picking out some headphones.

These pills got my arms feeling all dangly though....

@ILJO I probably undersold the Focal Listen Wireless but I worry about tastes. I love these French fuckers but you have to know that you're not going to feel the bass. You'll hear it. It's there but it's much more mid and high focused. I taper the mids and highs back a notch and elevate the bass on my EQ. And I use custom Earpads.

With all that ^ for me.. they're a god damn steal at 220/230. Though I'm also using Dekoni nuggets with them as well but that's a separate discussion.
That actually sounds just like my cup of tea. Like I said, I'm not much of a bass guy. Even when I switch over from rock to like electronic or hip hoppy type stuff, I don't fucks with my eq. I keeps it how I likes it. Highs and mids all day baby. I guess I'm just used to it that way -- that's just how I enjoy it. I don't like to "feel" the bass in my headphones, it kind of detracts from the sound, for me anyway.



Could you explain a little more about amps for those 6xx's you were talking about though. Sorry, I know it's probably like talking to a child for you, but I'm not fully understanding. If I use my laptop, I need an amp? Or is that if I'm using my phone? Or both?
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(@Poindexter - do you know why I didn't get an alert when he just @'ed me? I noticed during Saturday's event that I also didn't get a notification that I should have)
 
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Ninjastix

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What happened to your back?

No need to apologize, I've only just started learning about all this shit and in that regard I'm still a novice. An enthusiastic novice, but a novice none the less.

We're on opposite spectrums when it comes to sound profiles or at least that's what I'm betting. There's a lot of ways people like to talk about sound and I'm slowly adopting some of those terms, so if I say some shit that doesn't make sense to you just ask for clarification.

I think based on what your describing that the PX7s are very likely to be your cup of tea in terms of a sound signature with the Focals coming in second. I don't have the PX7s but I'm going to guess if the Focals sounded as good as they did more people would talk about them. I like Focal's sound signature a lot but the Listen Wireless is definitely entry level. It does have AptX though so the streaming quality is rather delicious. The sound is a bit bright or peaking in the upper range and what I mean be this is it can trend toward siblance on certain recordings. This is the "tsss" sound from things like symbols or 's' sounds in voices.

The best description of siblance I've heard is imagine a hanging sheet of aluminum foil and hitting it with a big metal spoon. The resonance of that sound might be a little too high pitched and irritating for most ears. In terms of where this usually likes in the sound frequency range you're talking about elevated treble response from about 6k to 12k or 16k and 24k for more sensitive headphones.

Your average headphone isn't going to resonate 24 KHz, but peaky 6k, 8k, and 10k is more common. I would say the Focal Listen Wireless are peaky out of the box in the 6-10k bands, so the treble is sharp. The mids are excellent. Superior to Bose, especially modern Bose. The higher up the price range you go with Focal the better the mids and highs become. They get thicker, warmer, less sharp and more neutral but a warm neutral meaning there's some fullness to the notes. You'd notice this with strings. If someone is playing a cello it could sound thin or far away or thick, full, with a heavier resonance even it means a bit of distortion (aka warmth).

So the Sennheiser 6xx has an impedence of 300ohms meaning you need a bit more power to drive them. To put 300 ohms in context your average mobile device headphone is likely going to be 32ohms, meaning it takes significantly less power to promote the sound and get the drivers to expand and contract. You can think of this as filling a balloon with air or helium. The shape and size the balloon is going to determine how much air you can fill it with and you want the balloon to expand evenly. That's what good amplification will do. It'll expand the sound, not just raise the volume. It's like owning a twin turbo V8. Put 93 in it. The engine needs that power to perform.

There are TONS of amps. I talked KC56 into getting the THX 789s so you can ping him if you want a full review on how it performs. THX amps supply more than enough power and are very clean sounding. Crystal clear imagining. They're solid state amps meaning they're a control board and power supply in a box. Alternatively you have Tube Amps and you have Hybrids that mix solid state with Tubes. I don't want to misspeak but I don't know that a Tube Amp would be the way to go with the Sennheiser HD 6XX.

I think you should look at a THX or some of the stuff the Schiit (pronounced "shit") makes.
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Links to Amps:

THX AAA 789: drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier

SMSL THX amp: www.amazon.com/S-M-S-L-AAA-888-Balanced-Headphone-Ampli%EF%AC%81er/dp/B07ZNDN5PF/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=thx+amp&qid=1594694152&sr=8-3

Schiit Magi/Heresy: www.schiit.com/products/magni-1

Liquid Spark: www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liquid-Spark-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07JW7NSXT/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=jds+labs+atom&qid=1594694515&sr=8-1

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DAC/amp combos:

One brand that people seem to rave about is JDS Labs. If I didn't like my iFi Zen so much I'd consider going with a JDS stack. Site is here: https://jdslabs.com/

There all-in-one solution is the element II: www.jdslabs.com/product/element-ii/

Another solid brand with an all-in one solution is FiiO's K5 Pro: www.amazon.com/FiiO-K5-AK4493EQ-Amplifier-Headphone/dp/B07WT7TYWY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2H1GGJ4JOWCIP&dchild=1&keywords=fiio+k5+pro&qid=1594694675&sprefix=fiio+%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-1

I almost bought the K5 Pro but I wanted the bass boost of the iFi Zen Dac. I have no regrets but I may pick up the K5 pro because of the input/source variety.

There's also the mobile DragonFly Black or Red. These tend to be controversial. They're technically USB DAC/amps with good programming but suspect build quality. The DragonFly Red is 200, the Black is 100, and the Cobalt is 300 and NOT FUCKING WORTH 300 dollars for what it does.

I went with an Xduoo Link but the DragonFly Red is a convenient and portal DAC/Amp combo that would be idiot proof: www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Red-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01DFMV4NQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1VBKKGT0HEQ20&dchild=1&keywords=dragonfly+red&qid=1594696403&sprefix=dragonfly+red%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-3


And if you get the 6xx you'll want to consider an amp that can handle Balanced inputs. I'm not getting into Balanced vs. Single-ended. Suffice it to say that Single-ended is your 3.5 mm and 6.35 mm mm/quarter inch input. It's what you'd probably know as standard audio jack. Balanced is 2.5 mm or 4.4 mm(?) pentacon or XLR inputs. If the 6xx comes with a balanced cable you should probably invest in an amplifier that can take a balanced input. You can always convert a balanced input to a Single-ended input but you'll lose the benefit of a Balanced input.

Fuck. I'm not getting into Balanced. This is enough information and you have a bunch of links to shop through.
 
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ILJO

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I'm not sure what happened to my back. Either it was when I was picking up/carrying cases of water, or a bit later after sitting in an awkward position for a while reading/responding to this thread. But once I got up, I felt pain, and then all my muscles in my lower back tensed/seized up. It was bad. I couldn't stand upright and I could only move by shuffling my feet like 6 inches at a time, hunched over.

But I went to the urgent care today and they gave me some muscles relaxers and pain killers (as well as steroids), so it's not so bad anymore. Don't get me wrong, I still can't stand straight or walk right, but it doesn't fucking hurt like shit when I make the tiniest wrong move.


But back to the point, Can you tell me a little more about this AptX? By streaming quality, you mean as opposed to having things downloaded on my device? Because I stream pretty much 100% of the time. Should this effect my decision?
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As interested as I am in the 6xx (and I may end up buying them still) , I think first I'll get a wireless pair, as it's more suiting to my needs right now.

We're on opposite spectrums when it comes to sound profiles or at least that's what I'm betting.
Yes, it definitely appears we are. 100%
 
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Ninjastix

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But back to the point, Can you tell me a little more about this AptX? By streaming quality, you mean as opposed to having things downloaded on my device? Because I stream pretty much 100% of the time. Should this effect my decision?
There's different codecs that stream Bluetooh audio in different quality. The most common are SBC and AAC. AptX, AptX low-latency, and AptX HD are codecs that allow for higher bitstream rates for audio playback. In general.. the greater the bitrate the better the audio quality POTENTIAL. A better codec doesn't necessarily mean better sound. Just means if you have a better source and better recordings and a higher stream rate available you should be able to hear it through the codec.

It's always worth knowing what codec a Bluetooh device is capable of using. Bose for example does not use AptX. Sony has a proprietary codec that is currently the highest bitstream available which is LDAC. So the best a non-Sony device would have natively is AptX HD. I don't know if anything is even using AptX HD natively so there's that to consider as well.

In terms of a source.. AAC or AptX would be fine for things like Spotify, Apple Music, Google music or the cheaper versions of Tidal or Amazon music where you're just streaming MP3. If you use a high-res service like Tidal Premium, Qobuz, or Amazon HD (which is what I use), or you have FLAC files or for some strange reason you have a DSD library but you don't have this equipment, then having a higher bitstream codec is going to be worth considering.

From personal experience I can definitely tell the difference between AptX and AAC for my sourcing. I prefer AptX. Significantly prefer. As far as I know Apple doesn't allow AptX or LDAC so that's a consideration too. I don't know if there's work around for that since I'm not in the Apple ecosystem.

I wouldn't recommend Tidal premium either unless you have a device that can decode MQAs. Otherwise you're wasting your money.

Sooooo.....

If you have:

MP3s or MP3 streaming -> AAC should be fine but AptX should sound slightly better

FLACs and/or 16-bit to 24-bit audio streaming -> I'd recommend AptX/AptX HD or LDAC devices

MQA -> I'd recommend AptX or LDAC in addition to a dongle or standalone DAC that can decode MQAs; otherwise you're wasting money

For hi-res streaming my recommendation would be:

1. Amazon HD
2. Qobuz
3. Tidal

Or go further down the rabbit hole than me. Get you a NAS and pay a couple of grand for a DSD library of shit and a couple grand more for shit that can play it. Then you can look down on all us PCM peasants.
 

ILJO

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There's different codecs that stream Bluetooh audio in different quality. The most common are SBC and AAC. AptX, AptX low-latency, and AptX HD are codecs that allow for higher bitstream rates for audio playback. In general.. the greater the bitrate the better the audio quality POTENTIAL. A better codec doesn't necessarily mean better sound. Just means if you have a better source and better recordings and a higher stream rate available you should be able to hear it through the codec.

It's always worth knowing what codec a Bluetooh device is capable of using. Bose for example does not use AptX. Sony has a proprietary codec that is currently the highest bitstream available which is LDAC. So the best a non-Sony device would have natively is AptX HD. I don't know if anything is even using AptX HD natively so there's that to consider as well.

In terms of a source.. AAC or AptX would be fine for things like Spotify, Apple Music, Google music or the cheaper versions of Tidal or Amazon music where you're just streaming MP3. If you use a high-res service like Tidal Premium, Qobuz, or Amazon HD (which is what I use), or you have FLAC files or for some strange reason you have a DSD library but you don't have this equipment, then having a higher bitstream codec is going to be worth considering.

From personal experience I can definitely tell the difference between AptX and AAC for my sourcing. I prefer AptX. Significantly prefer. As far as I know Apple doesn't allow AptX or LDAC so that's a consideration too. I don't know if there's work around for that since I'm not in the Apple ecosystem.

I wouldn't recommend Tidal premium either unless you have a device that can decode MQAs. Otherwise you're wasting your money.

Sooooo.....

If you have:

MP3s or MP3 streaming -> AAC should be fine but AptX should sound slightly better

FLACs and/or 16-bit to 24-bit audio streaming -> I'd recommend AptX/AptX HD or LDAC devices

MQA -> I'd recommend AptX or LDAC in addition to a dongle or standalone DAC that can decode MQAs; otherwise you're wasting money

For hi-res streaming my recommendation would be:

1. Amazon HD
2. Qobuz
3. Tidal

Or go further down the rabbit hole than me. Get you a NAS and pay a couple of grand for a DSD library of shit and a couple grand more for shit that can play it. Then you can look down on all us PCM peasants.
Ok, so I use google play, but I thought putting it on "always high" quality meant I was getting hi-res sound. Guess not. I will switch to Amazon HD. Hopefully the library is as extensive.... what would you say?

So I was about to go buy the PX7's, but I decided to wait on your response. Does this change that recommendation (knowing that I'm primarily streaming)?

And how about for my Sennheisers? Also Amazon HD?
 

Ninjastix

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The highest Google music goes to 320kbps. That's what high nets you. And their library consists of MP3s ONLY. The Amazon HD plan makes sense for me and my wife because we're Prime members and they discount individual and family plans. Their library is huge and their interface is sleek. I think Tidal has the best interface but Amazon is close. I've been very impressed by their Library. You may struggle to find obscure shit but all the new stuff is there and there's plenty of genres represented.

16-bit is CD quality. If your device supports it however you can stream up to 24-bit. The bit rate for Amazon HD I believe caps at 850kbps. Over mobile I stream "Standard" quality but I just download 16 and 24-bit files to my phone from their site. This way I don't have to stream shit when I'm driving. My phone has an external storage card so I can make that accommodation. I tend to only download playlists, not my full library.

And no it does not change my recommendation. The PX7s are endorsed by Darko. And if Darko says they're good, they're good. Watch this before you buy.

 
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ILJO

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The highest Google music goes to 320kbps. That's what high nets you. And their library consists of MP3s ONLY. The Amazon HD plan makes sense for me and my wife because we're Prime members and they discount individual and family plans. Their library is huge and their interface is sleek. I think Tidal has the best interface but Amazon is close. I've been very impressed by their Library. You may struggle to find obscure shit but all the new stuff is there and there's plenty of genres represented.

16-bit is CD quality. If your device supports it however you can stream up to 24-bit. The bit rate for Amazon HD I believe caps at 850kbps. Over mobile I stream "Standard" quality but I just download 16 and 24-bit files to my phone from their site. This way I don't have to stream shit when I'm driving. My phone has an external storage card so I can make that accommodation. I tend to only download playlists, not my full library.

And no it does not change my recommendation. The PX7s are endorsed by Darko. And if Darko says they're good, they're good. Watch this before you buy.

K. Currently watching, but the Sennheiser Momentum 3's are looking appealing to me now. Some of the reviews I'm reading are saying they've got the best overall sound/quality. All the negative stuff I'm reading that's knocking the ranking of it is about other shit, and I'm not too concerned about the ANC or microphone or other shit other than the sound really.

Do you have experience with these?
 

Ninjastix

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K. Currently watching, but the Sennheiser Momentum 3's are looking appealing to me now. Some of the reviews I'm reading are saying they've got the best overall sound/quality. All the negative stuff I'm reading that's knocking the ranking of it is about other shit, and I'm not too concerned about the ANC or microphone or other shit other than the sound really.

Do you have experience with these?
Nope. I'm not the biggest fan of Sennheiser personally. I think they appeal to the audiophile community based on the their emphasis on clarity but their builds and features seem to leave a lot to be desired given their cost.

What gets me wet is sound staging, fullness of sounds/notes, comfort, and balance (no one frequency band being overemphasized).

There's another I forget to link that Steve just showcased. These are open-back Bluetooth headphones so they'll beat anything we've discussed for sound stage but they will not insulate sound. They're best used in a quiet/private environment but they're easy to drive, look well-built, and likely sound incredible. I think Steve rates them a 6/10 but Steve reviews headphones in excess of 4-7 thousand dollars, speakers that cost 40 grand, and super high end turn tables, vintage DACs and Amps. A 6/10 for Steve is like a 8.5/9 out of 10 from your average enthusiast.

 

ILJO

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Fuckin A, now I want to buy ^ those.....
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I'm very indecisive, Stix. This is hard now.
 

Ninjastix

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This has been my life for the last 9 months? So welcome to the club. You probably want to do some research on Planar Magnetic drivers. I don't own a pair so I have idea what they sound like. Everything else I mentioned have been dynamic drivers.

Nevermind lol, found a video I had in history:

 

Ninjastix

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Darko comes at from an audiophile perspective, bass heavy doesn't mean the same as what it would mean to you are I. It means the low notes have more emphasis but this creates contrast. It sounds counter-intuitive but the separation and staging are more important with those. The bass is going to be more prominent in the Sonys because of their intended audience, which is the casual listener. Bass forward or low-end emphasis in HiFi or hi-res doesn't mean the same thing. Usually means more rounded notes and solid impact from the dynamic drivers.

In the sound demos I've heard the Px7 sound clean. If I can find one I'll link it.


To me the Sonys sound a bit muddied and the Bose a bit flat by comparison. The high-end on the PX7 is the best I've heard demo'ed.
 
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ILJO

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Yeah, even that guy ^ kind of echo'd my concerns, with the high's being not the best. The sound test sounded great, for that type of music. I think it's a matter of preference of sound profile or whatever (and the corresponding genres that they fit). As you mentioned we're kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum.

The lack of an equalizer for those is kind of a deal breaker for me.


The search I guess for me right now is the best treble/highs and clarity of sound.

The sony's may be a bit bass heavy from what I understand, but it seems like most of these fucking things are. At least there's an equalizer with those, and they seem to be somewhat of the standard. I guess I just need something with an equalizer for my tastes if nobody is catering to my kind of sound profile....

The Sennheiser Momentum 3's seem like another decent option. Right now I think I'm debating between those two.
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Fuck, this prednisone's got me wired. I feel like I'm on adderall right now.
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Ok I think I've concluded my research. The Sennheisers appear to have the best quality of sound covering all frequencies (high to low).

Literally everything else is going against them -- from subpar ANC, to subpar battery life, average mic, and higher price point. They don't even look cool ffs.

But I think I'm going to get them.
 
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Ninjastix

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I still think the PX7s are the better overall buy but the Sennheiser Momentum 3s are well received for sound quality. Plus the app allows you to EQ the tone, but you can have an EQ on your phone or PC as well to supplement. In any event if you don't like them you can return them. Or you can skip ANC altogether and go with the Focals.
 

Ninjastix

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AKG studio monitors are well received from what I've read. The Samsung Buds+ are essentially AKG engineered. Hard to tell much about the AKG sound from the Buds because they're much more about the form factor, controls, and mics.

I think they currently offer the k361 and k371 but I've heard mixed things about the build and sound. I think the 371s follow.the Harmon curve to a T and that can sound great or off-putting, though they're suppose to be extremely comfortable.

Now when I see Sennheiser or AKG I think studio reference. That's the stuff I'd own if I did editing or played the piano or guitar, though the Status Audio CB1 are supposed to do all that shit as well or better for less money.

However that is the only testimonial I've heard about AKG stuff so thanks for sharing!
 

jesusatemyhotdog

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AKG studio monitors are well received from what I've read. The Samsung Buds+ are essentially AKG engineered. Hard to tell much about the AKG sound from the Buds because they're much more about the form factor, controls, and mics.

I think they currently offer the k361 and k371 but I've heard mixed things about the build and sound. I think the 371s follow.the Harmon curve to a T and that can sound great or off-putting, though they're suppose to be extremely comfortable.

Now when I see Sennheiser or AKG I think studio reference. That's the stuff I'd own if I did editing or played the piano or guitar, though the Status Audio CB1 are supposed to do all that shit as well or better for less money.

However that is the only testimonial I've heard about AKG stuff so thanks for sharing!
I originally got them for monitoring while recording drums. I haven't played in years, so I use them to listen to the stuff my wife doesn't like. The dynamics and sound fidelity are excellent.
 

Ninjastix

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That's the thing with older headphones. They're as good if not better than a lot of shit on the market. What you note is what I've heard about AKG but I think it applies more so to those older models than the newer ones.
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New iFi stack:


I'm a HUGE fan of the Zen DAC if you only use audio from a laptop or phone. I don't think I'd need this stack but it is awfully pretty.
 
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