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The Trans Discussion

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by Mr. Cornute, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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    Am I wrong for not fully grasping the trans discussion and what is deemed controversial when it comes to trans folk?

    I have no qualms calling someone who was born biologically a male/female whatever pronoun they wish to be addressed as and I will go along with calling them him/her etc. What confuses me is why trans folk get upset when they make a statement that alludes to the fact that they were not born the sex they wished to be addressed as and someone points out a scientific fact, example below.



    When someone outright states that they can "get pregnant" that in of itself means that this person is a female, right? How is it offensive to point that out. To me it's the same when someone points out too trans men that feminism by its definition would cater towards women and issues that are unique to women.

    The trans discussion for me stopped at people who wish to identify as....cool. Bob identifies as Barb and wants to be referenced as a she rather than he, no problem. But does 'Barb' now get to be included on issues that are unique to women (biologically) that Barb couldn't possibly understand? And vice versa?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    Ninjastix likes this.
  2. Ninjastix

    Ninjastix Damn Gina Site Donor

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    It's all a matter of context and intent. Personally if I make a remark devoid of intentional malice or spite and some simply refuses to see how I can be ignorant of their specific circumstances then you're dealing with what we call an "asshole".

    Assholes span age, race, gender, sex, and species. The great common element of an asshole is the inability to comprehend anyone else's circumstances but their own.

    So while I may not be gender fluent, I'm considerate and humble enough to offer an apology if I were to offend someone's sensibilities. If that's returned with equal or greater offense I fall back to my asshole-contingency planning.
     
  3. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    In a one-on-one, interpersonal context, I have no issue with referring to someone who presents themselves as a certain gender as that gender. However, that doesn't at all mean, on the broader subject of gender, sex, and identity, that there aren't positions that are much more sound than others. It's entirely possible to politely refer to a male who presents as feminine using feminine pronouns in conversation but for that male to still be wrong in lots of significant ways on the subject of sex and gender identification.
     
    Poindexter and Mr. Cornute like this.
  4. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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    I'm all for addressing someone as they with to identify, I don't see a problem with that. I am confused at how trans folk believe it is "phobic" for lesbians who don't wish to have sex with trans women (ie those who identify as women but are still biologically and otherwise male), that is something I've seen recently which has sparked this thought....along with the devoid of logic statement above.

    I've seen trans women say that women speaking of their periods is oppression because it denotes "real" females or persons who have been pregnant that attempt to exude that they are males. I don't see the harm in that, nor understand how could their be. Like, these folks understand and know that biologically they are not the opposite gender and in turn there are certain bodily functions that are unique to the gender you weren't born into and in turn society isn't oppressing you by recognizing that.
     
  5. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    The thing I constantly have to ask trans activists is what do the terms "man" and "woman" mean in their understanding? I need an example of what they want the definitions of those terms to be, and what I usually get in return are 1) avoidance of the question or 2) answers that make gender so nebulous a category as to be essentially meaningless.
     
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  6. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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    That seems to be my very confusion with Trans activists as well.
     
  7. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    look at it this way

    can anyone tell you what religion you belong to? what political party you belong to? etc

    If youre more 'conservative' than I am, and we both say were republican (for the sake of discussion here), can you actually tell me 'youre a liberal cause Im more conservative than you'. ?

    the same argument applies to the 'trans' issue

    some people are asexual, pansexual, etc. no one has the right to tell you what your 'sexual orientation' is. The whole point is that humans are complicated and cant be broken down to just 'straight' or 'gay'

    now apply that same logic to gender and thats the point theyre making

    some people are 'gender fluid', for one example


    its like people who are black. I hate the term 'african-american', cause it implies (IMO) that youre not just a normal american

    everyone else is american unless youre black

    but not all people who are black like being called black. some prefer 'african-american'.


    so if youre worried about what pronoun to use, just ask them. most of the black guys I know prefer 'african-american', but after I explained my POV they dont care that I call them black


    besides, what you call a person isnt as important as how you treat them
     
  8. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    But that's just it, terms like "gay" and "straight" tend to refer to actual behaviors, and if one person were to claim the label of one while exhibiting all the identifiable characteristics of the other, people would balk at that. If Dan Bilzerian suddenly started "identifying as a gay man" without changing his lifestyle or behavior at all, people would give him seriously funny looks. "Gay" and "straight" mean pretty specific things, as do "man" and "woman" to the vast majority of the human population of this planet. The few folks who disagree with the latter meaning just seem to have a very hard time saying what those terms mean to them.

    Now, again, none of this at all is to say that it's unacceptable or wrong for one person who have personality traits/fashion preferences/whatever that are outside the norm for their sex. I'm just trying to get the folks who think that females can be men and males can be women to come up with a coherent explanation of what that even means.
     
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  9. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    they may, but to my earlier point, no one can define your religion or political affiliation. someone can say theyre gay, and someone else can say 'no way, gay people dont do what you do'. whos right in that situation?

    the one defining themselves, or the one applying a label and 'acceptable' definition to someone else who never said they lived within societies definition of something?

    to some, but not all

    I know plenty of lesbians who got tired of a woman and tried a man. does that mean they can never call themselves gay again?

    isnt it possible who you are today isnt based on things youve done? but rather how you live?

    possibly because they'd rather define themselves than let everyone else define them

    but thats my larger point. humans are far too complicated to be put into rigid character roles.

    other people dont have to 'make sense' to be normal

    I eat veal, yet I support animal rights (theyre fucking dead already. eat that shit)

    its possible to wear different 'hats' and be different people at different times


    one of my closest friends is black, and whenever we talk to cops he sounds like Ned Flanders. every other time he sounds like Ice Cube

    trying to define what a 'man' is or what a 'woman' is will only exclude someone from that definition

    humans dont do well when stuffed into boxes that define them in totality

    thats why religion usually fails
     
  10. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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    I'm a black guy so I grasp the rational between the preference of being called 'black or african american'. My issue lays with the offensive nature taken when people point out that ONLY women who were born biologically as a woman can be pregnant/have periods, some trans folk feel that is "oppressive". No black person I know feels "oppressed" by being called black or African American as it is more just a matter of preference. Trans folk label being told biological functions are "oppressive" when in truth it's just scientific fact. Being called what someone identifies as isn't what I am confused about, what they amount to oppression is.
     
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  11. disposableassassin

    disposableassassin Tainted supplement distributor Site Donor

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    I believe alot of it boils down to how trans people fight the gender they were born internally their whole lives. They feel different but they aren't so they fight it. Some people are defensive and/or aggressive due to conflicts and other stressors in their lives. Trans people can suffer the same psychological issues as anyone else. My belief is that some internalize the struggle to fight the nature of their born gender so strongly that they project it in other ways.

    So essentially I agree with @Ninjastix some people are just assholes.
     
    Trodden likes this.
  12. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    I agree its a stupid issue to have

    by that logic a menopausal woman isnt a woman anymore

    I live outside St. Louis and every black guy Ive ever talked to hates being called 'african', regardless if american is on the end of it

    but this is also a place where white people use the N word the way valley girls say 'like'

    does anyone else have the right to tell you what should and shouldnt be 'oppressive' to you?

    or do you have the right to define your own outrage?

    people getting upset over opinions is the biggest waste of time and emotion

    I agree its trivial, but everything can seem trivial when its not something you have to deal with everywhere, everyday

    but youre black, (or african-american if thats your preference.), ever been followed through a store? had someone treat you like you were going to rob them? or been pulled over for jack shit?


    some might call that oppression, some FoxNews viewers might not call it that

    point of view makes all the difference, and were all a bunch of dumbasses with opinions
    --- Post Added -- Nov 3, 2017, ---
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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  14. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    saying someones who black has a higher risk of diabetes is a statistical observation

    pointing that out isnt oppression

    trying to point out why, without valid scientific reasoning is

    what is the indisputable fact thats being called oppression?
     
  15. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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    That's the discussion:


    Trans folk state (maybe not all but enough) state that pointing out that women (can/do) have periods or women (can/do) get pregnant is oppression because it calls into question their womanhood or perceived femininity.

    Pointing those things out aren't and should not be considered oppressive as they are scientific facts.
     
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  16. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    I think we need to just call people, people. not man or woman or herm or shim or Richard Simmons

    people are people. if someone is so hung up on how someone dresses or who they like to sleep with, they need to go get laid




    plus Id like to say you should never cater your thinking, or the discussion to the dumbest person involved
     
  17. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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  18. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    seriously, why even listen to such a fuck-tard?

    she calls herself a 'truth-teller', 'envelope pusher', and 'jesus follower'

    she doesnt matter, and her opinions matter less


    plus its twitter, where retards go to out-dumb another retard


    someone like that isnt fit to judge a dog show, let alone sexuality
     
  19. Mr. Cornute

    Mr. Cornute Prince of Saiyan...stuff.

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    Indeed
     
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  20. 0mega1

    0mega1 Well-Known Member

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    My little cousin who I see every Christmas eve has apparently began the sex-change process. Apparently, he already has boobs. It's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out at the annual family christmas eve party. It will also be hard not to call him by his birth name which ive called him for the past 19 years. What really confuses me is apparently he still likes girls. He's like Mr/Mrs Garrison on southpark. Its a fucking trip.
     

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