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The Russia Trump fiasco

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by jesusatemyhotdog, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. Walter Sobchak

    Walter Sobchak Crank some Frank!

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    When Comey was in charge of FBI he said that Flynn made a mistake and did not consider it a crime. They said he did not intend to lie because he got the dates wrong and now they are saying he is lying. Lol there is still no collusion. You want to name bet they don’t find anything wrong here with trump and this is just reaching again.
    --- Post Added -- Dec 2, 2017, ---
    We have contact with foreign admin with the incoming admin. There is zero crime there at all, they know what was discussed and there is no collusion charge. Despite all the static, Muller has zero collusion case, none.
     
  2. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    There's a difference between talking to a foreign government and actually trying to get deals done, especially when those deals are contrary to what the existing US government is working to accomplish.
     
  3. Walter Sobchak

    Walter Sobchak Crank some Frank!

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    What is he going to testify against trump for? Talking to the Russians after the election? Because trump ordered him to do it? Nothing wrong there at all.
     
  4. Tapout

    Tapout Bringing Sexy Back Site Donor

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    It’s treason
     
  5. Walter Sobchak

    Walter Sobchak Crank some Frank!

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    No it’s not, talking to the Russians after the election?
     
  6. Tapout

    Tapout Bringing Sexy Back Site Donor

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    Read thread
     
  7. Cat--Smasher

    Cat--Smasher Putting the stamp on kids Staff Member Survival Pool Champion

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    In the end, Trump may avoid charges but Kusher and Jr. dont get away unscratched.
     
  8. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    It's not treason, because treason requires a declaration of war. It definitely violates the Logan Act, though.
    --- Post Added -- Dec 2, 2017, ---
    The charges aren't related to "talking." Diplomacy is deal-making, not just talking, and Trump's transition team were not authorized to make deals on behalf of the US government at that time.
    --- Post Added -- Dec 2, 2017, ---
    § 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

    Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
    This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.
     
  9. Walter Sobchak

    Walter Sobchak Crank some Frank!

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    Flynn is not a private citizen in the capacity he was acting in. He is representing the new administration that will be taking over and although that administration is not exactly in office yet, this has been happening for years and years with all transitions. So we are hanging our hat on that? I say he does not qualify. Has anyone been prosecuted? Is that even constitunally legal ? I’m asking those questions to ask, not to be smart. I don’t think Flynn qualifies to even be charged with that. I think people want anything than can get that will put trump and his whole admin out.
     
  10. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    Yes, he was. A President-Elect's transition team are not part of the government and have zero governmental authority. The US does not have two dueling administrations during the period between an election and an inauguration. The incoming government has no power or authority unless it gets specifically granted to them, and that typically doesn't happen until the new POTUS takes office.
     
  11. Walter Sobchak

    Walter Sobchak Crank some Frank!

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    I think if you were to look into it a bit you would find that it’s very common of incoming transition teams to have lengthy conversations in regards policy changes. I’m reading an article now about the author of, “Presidential Transitions and American Foreign Policy.” Professor Clinton from Baylor university. He claims that it’s very commonplace for these things to occur, and abnormal if it did not. I’m no expert on this so I just did some searching on it. He knows more than I so I can say anything to the contrary
     
  12. unforgivn

    unforgivn Nunquam Fidelis

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    Looks like you probably got your information from here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...ump-transition-team-violate-logan-act-no.html There are people doing their best to spin this to not be a bad look for the White House, but the simple fact is that there's no such thing as a plea deal without a set of more severe charges to use as leverage over the defendant. If Flynn didn't commit any offense greater than lying to the FBI, then there's no room to make a plea deal. And if Flynn doesn't have someone upstream for him that he can deliver to prosecutors, then there's no incentive for the feds to offer a deal at all.

    There's more going on.
     
    ATJ-Lucko likes this.
  13. ATJ-Lucko

    ATJ-Lucko MMAtheist

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    In apparent shift, Trump tweets he fired Flynn for lying to FBI

    President Trump said Saturday he had to fire Michael Flynn as national security adviser because he lied to Vice President Pence and the FBI, an apparent shift from the reasons Trump stated at the time of Flynn's ouster.

    Trump’s changing rationale is a discrepancy that will catch the attention of prosecutors on Mueller’s team looking into whether the president tried to obstruct the investigation.

    "I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies," Trump tweeted while traveling in New York City for fundraising events.

    Trump also stressed “there was nothing to hide!”

    "It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!" he added.

    The president’s tweet is his most substantial reaction yet to Flynn’s guilty plea in special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation.

    Before leaving the White House on Saturday, Trump told reporters there was “no collusion” between his campaign and Moscow — but did not elaborate.

    Flynn pleaded guilty on Friday to lying to federal investigators about his conversations during the presidential transition with Russia's U.S. ambassador about sanctions related to the Kremlin’s election interference.

    The retired Army general said those topics did not come up in his talks with then-Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, a claim that was repeated publicly by Pence and other White House officials.

    Trump in February said he axed Flynn because he lied to the vice president — but did not mention anything related to what the national security adviser told the FBI.

    “I fired him because of what he said to Mike Pence. Very simple,” Trump said at a Feb. 16 news conference, three days after Flynn was fired.

    In June, former FBI Director James Comey testified before Congress that Trump asked him to end the investigation into Flynn during an Oval Office meeting on Feb. 14. Trump's lawyers have disputed that account.

    Trump fired Comey in May.

    If Trump knew that Flynn had lied to the FBI and then asked Comey to drop the investigation, it could amount to obstruction of justice, according to some legal experts.

    "This is a pretty substantial confession to essential knowledge elements of an obstruction of justice charge," tweeted Susan Hennessey, a national security fellow at the Brookings Institution.

    But it is unclear if Trump’s tweet offered new details about what he knew at the time or if the president was using Flynn’s plea to retroactively explain his firing.

    Either way, Flynn’s confession has dramatically raised the legal stakes for Trump and the White House in the Mueller probe.

    The former national security adviser is the first person to have held a position in the Trump administration to be charged by the special counsel.

    Flynn, who was a close Trump confidant during the 2016 election, said in a statement Friday he is cooperating with Mueller's team, meaning it is possible he could reveal damaging information about Trump or members of his inner circle.


    http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-trump-tweets-he-fired-flynn-for-lying-to-fbi
     

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