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Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by Ct_L33T, Oct 26, 2015.
This story has pissed me off.
Passive resistance is a bitch to deal with and it's the norm with the youth of today because they are looking to create virtue through their victimhood. This is a perfect example of an officer stepping directly into that trap.
It looked terrible. Really terrible. It didn't look as terrible as a tazing or spray would have been (Which were within his arsenal once she disregarded two lawful orders).
What would be the correct way to deal with passive resistance?
It looked bad, but it's hard for me to really draw an accurate conclusion based on 16 seconds of video.
I think what might be confusing people a bit about the situation is the video labels this man as an officer & he is wearing his uniform.
But if you read about the incident, it states this man, Ben Fields, is the school monitor and was acting as the school monitor when this happened. It just happens that Fields is also a local sheriff. I am not sure about the laws policing school monitors in America but in Canada, no way in hell should a school monitor be putting their hands on a child for passive resistance that is posing no threat to themselves or anyone else.
*After reading Kevo's post below, school monitors are clearly different in America than in Canada.
Slightly longer video at the link
That's my thoughts too. Apparently the girl was disrupting the class. They teacher tried to remove her, the girl refused. The principal tried to remove her, she refused. A police officer was called and tried to remove her, she again refused and what you see is the result. Was it harsh, yes. But I don't see her as a victim. I see the other kids in that class that had their education disrupted by a disobedient and disruptive girl as the victims.
That's the trick bag Mr. Kevo.
The kid set the tone for the encounter. From what I heard on the radio, the teacher demanded she leave twice and then called the resource officer. The officer gave instruction twice and the kid resisted (passively). He had the go ahead to use force but it tipping the desk backward and then slinging her across the room appeared extreme.
I would have gotten an arm. Cuffed that arm and then pulled her out of the desk. If the desk came with her, at least her head was protected from trauma from the backward tipping of the desk. Once cuffed, I would have put her into the escort position and used pain compliance to keep her walking.
He is a school resource officer. They are still police while acting in that capacity and are employed to act as such.
--- Post Added -- Oct 27, 2015, ---
I can't condone tipping the desk in such a way that a young person could become severely injured or handicapped. I think that was too much.
As I said, she set the tone. Agreed. However, officer and offender safety are both important and officer safety wasn't really in jeopardy at the time.
--- Post Added -- Oct 27, 2015, ---
The only disappointing thing in this video is that a police officer had to be called. A teacher or principal should have easily been able to put the little snotty brat in line like that. Quit defending troublemakers and scumbags.
Officer is going to be fired and lose whatever pension he may have had coming.
The student will become another hero victim of racist police
The student that filmed broke school policy by having an electronic device in class will face no discipline.
The teacher of the class will never be respected again.
And lastly, every student inthat class and that has watched this video will now feel empowered to defy their teachers and even the school resource officers because, well, why not, that fucker can't touch me without being fired.
I know I'm inadvertandly blowing this issue into a bigger one, but I look forward to the day that police officers just say fuck it and let chaos reign and then see how the community responds.
When they don't come to certain neighborhoods fast enough they're racists. When they show up in minutes with back up, they're racists. When they have the slightest altercation with certain anyone, they're out of control. When they shoot people that shoot at them, they're too violent.
Fuck that shit. Let them the world burn and sit back eating doughnuts and tell them all to fuck off.
It would have been hilarious if another resource officer was called (if they had one) and simply picked the desk up, with her in it, and carried it out of the classroom.
Who is the 'them' in your scenario???
Here is the thing, when there is a disproportionate use of force people have the right & are justified in speaking against it.
Even criminals have rights & we have a judicial system that is supposed to adjudicate after a person is arrested not before.
There aren't many people who scream about police shooting people who shoot at them,to the contrary people tend to understand if you fire at an officer you will die.
people tend to speak out at police who shoot unarmed people, again disproportionate use of force.
The question I have for you & those who think as you do, when is a good time to speak out & say this is too much?
When it's too much. Just pretend it wasn't a white person making the girl responsible for her actions (lack there of) and it probably won't appear as bad.
that just seemed like a completely unnecessary use of force
that girl could have been injured pretty bad when the desk was flipped
Im sure plenty of lawyers are trying to get a hold of her
That depends on how you define disproportionate.
Is an officer shooting a guy beating him unconscious (Darren Wilson) disproportionate when the guys 280 lbs?
I say no.
Is shooting an old man running away with a limp?
I say yes.
I think social media warriors and "independent" news outlets are creating a narrative of oppression so that they can reap the benefits associated with social commentary from the perspective of a victim. Americans view the victims or marginalized as somehow infallible and allow them to rampantly demonize anything they want.
That was in response to cornute. I'm on my phone
Of course it is, these instances of disproportionate levels of force are caused by individual officers. These individual officers are either not required to gain enough education to fulfill their job capacity or they are the wrong type of personality to even do the job. Law enforcement is a tough gig. You have to have a ton of humility and the ability to compose yourself as well as presenting power at the same time. It is a tough balance. You should not have law enforcement officers without the mental capacity to do this. The system needs to have tougher prerequisites...
This officer or whatever he is deserves to be fired because it is totally clear that he does not have the faculties to do the job in the manner that is required.
News orgs make money off of tragedy. It's not just those examples you are describing but ALL news sources do what you are saying. MSM is even worse. They are sensationalists and fearmongers. I'd argue that it creates a culture of victimization. If you watch the local news everyday in this day and age, you'll be transformed to a frightened little sheep rather than an informed citizen. It's sad.
Resisting the lawful orders of police, can and should be met with non-deadly force (broad term on purpose).
The more that people raise an uproar about anytime something with police doesn't go as smoothly as possible the more frequently these incidents occur.
The problem that our society as a whole has now is that they view the police as the bad guy, the intruder, the punisher, and that's simply not what they are. They are generally here to help.
Now the flip side....as police are branded bad, corrupt, and racist by the public, the more good hinest people will shy away from becoming cops and the more bad, corrupt, violent, racist people will be joining the police force.
Conclusion - the more we complain and bitch, the worse the problem gets because both sides get further away from neutral.
So what's the solution? Accept the shit sandwich that is undertrained or underqualified officers? You have to address a problem when it exists or it will only get worse.
I mean, pretty soon we will have Judge Dredd, but he will be racist with a confederate flag on his back.
so your solution is to never speak up when cops go to far?
I'd agree with you, but when we say someone is being "beat unconscious" they should have the marks to match not slight redness to their face. Further when said person is proportionately the same size as the person they supposedly attacked.
I'm 5'6, a giant I know, so I know how much size can & does make a difference in a physical altercation.
I've said before that when someone has a weapon &a poses a direct danger you have absolutely no argument from me about any force used.
I will also say even if they do not have a weapon &I they pose a direct danger I will not argue against use of force up to &I including a firearm.
I will continue to argue that if a person is not armed & do not pose an immediate/direct danger that force should be limited.
I know you've stated before that you hope I'm never in a situation that changes my mind if I do become an officer, I hope I have the courage of my convictions to follow through with my speech & help set an example.