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In New Court Filing UFC Makes Strong Case For Why Fighters Should Unionize

Discussion in 'General MMA Forum' started by Poindexter, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. Poindexter

    Poindexter Reputation: ∞ Staff Member

  2. Noise

    Noise Ruido

    Unionizing to fight in a promotion that is no longer solvent because fighter A wanted what fighter B made - Sounds a lot like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

    I didn't read anything in that excerpt that didn't make business sense. Morally you can feel one way or another about it, but business wise - I don't see how anyone could expect the UFC to feel otherwise.

    And where are these guys at:

  3. Kano

    Kano My New Challenge Site Donor

    I am a union member. IAM local W33, I am very satisfied with the benefits I receive for my union dues.
    Collective bargaining, union representation at discipline hearings and insuring a safe work environment are some of the big benefits. Plus others.
    CA_Gas Bag and Poindexter like this.
  4. CA_Gas Bag

    CA_Gas Bag Well-Known Member

    That must be nice to have a union that doesn't risk people's jobs to satisfy a handful of people who want to bitch because things change over time.
    Kano likes this.
  5. thumper

    thumper Picogrammy Staff Member

    i think it all depends on where you're at. I was part of a restaurant/bar union for hotel workers when in college. The union there sucked. it did little more than protect the lazy fuckers because we couldn't fire them.

    they always got fired, but it took much longer than it should have.

    Then I look at things like electrical unions, construction etc and in those cases they are extremely important.

    it depends on the application and which union we're talking about.

    The unionization of fighters is a very small piece of the puzzle. The Ali Act would do that same thing but add a much bigger picture. Clean up the bullshit rankings, give fighters more exposure of their true value because the books couldn't be hidden anymore, and most importantly, it would stop what WME is doing by promoting their fighters over fighters with other management.

    I'm still stunned they're even allowed to manage fighters in their own promotion as it is.
    CA_Gas Bag likes this.
  6. Kano

    Kano My New Challenge Site Donor

    Yes this does happen.
  7. PillowBiter

    PillowBiter Well-Known Member Site Donor

    At least you're willing to admit that it's you :)
  8. Kano

    Kano My New Challenge Site Donor

    Well let me tell you about the time....................
    AnchorPunch likes this.
  9. SandyWH


    It would take less than 10 minutes for MMA Math to put UFC out of business if all moneys and details from all contracts were disclosed and made public.

    Guys like RDA would want Weidman's money because of similarity in resume. Fighter X beat Fighter Y last year, why is Fighter X making more money?

    Its simple logic. A fighter (or truthfully a REAL agent) should do his/her homework, know the value of their name and skills, and ask for contracts and compensation that align with that value.

    One thing to note though, and this is what the pro sports owners battle every time with the unions, is that this is not a "free market". While Joe Smith's value to UFC is perceived as $1M, the next most viable option may only equate the same value as $300K. So there truthfully is very little negotiating power without a revenue share, and UFC would be wise to shut down operations if required to share revenue.
    Noise, #1taz and Poindexter like this.
  10. SandyWH


    Serious Question (especially for the Profit Sharing or Fighters Should Earn More crowd)

    When has any professional sports organization, or even an entertainment organization ever not passed the cost of expansion, raises, or success along to the fans?

    Average UFC ticket prices are now well in excess of $100.
    Pay-Per-Views aren't getting any cheaper.
    Yet with more shows at higher costs and less quality, along with better advertisers, the fans continue to pay more and more for the product.
    The fighters are making nearly 3x what they were making even 5 years ago.
    We have no idea just how much the UFC is actually making, but I'm sure the rise in cost on the fans didn't just benefit the fighters.


    If one really wants to stand firm on something, why aren't there more uproars and posts about why the fans keep paying the bills.

    Players want more money. So the owners get a bigger TV deal. The fans cable bill goes up.
    Players want more money. So the owners get the fans to build them a new/bigger stadium.
    Players want more money. So the owners raise ticket prices on the fans who just paid for a new stadium.
    Players want more money. So the owners threaten to move their business to where someone will pay more.
    Players want more money. So the owners create more varieties of merchandise for the fans to buy.

    Fans have tried fighting back and the fight never takes place with the ones that they should be fighting with (player & owners).
    We've cut the chord. Cable and satellite companies have less revenue in which to enrich owners and players with. Doesn't matter, they'll just raise our rates and fire expensive TV talent, but no way are they going to reduce what they pay the owners or players.
    We've stopped voting for new stadium referendums. The local governments simply ignore the ballot boxes and legislate new stadiums anyway. Because the fans doesn't know any better, the city needs to keep paying the owners and players.
    Fans have stopped selling out stadiums for these events. Owners and players simply put up tarps and charge more for ticket prices and parking, or they get smaller stadiums with more amenities to charge more money.
    Fans have finally been heard and the refusal to buy expensive tickets, show up to games, build a new stadium have all worked. So, rather than listening to the fans, the owners and players pack up and move to somewhere that thinks they want these issues.
    Fans stop buy the six different color schemes and the alternate jerseys. Owners and players simply rebrand the product or call it limited edition and then charge licensing fees to the stores that sell their merchandise.

    We are the source of the incomes for these greedy whores that are the players and owners. They play us for fools. They pretend to fight amongst themselves to label the other the greedy one, but its all a show. They distract the fans (the source) with this fight. Meanwhile they continue to devise ways to to get us to willfully give up more of our money.

    How is it, why is it, that we are celebrating and paying these athletes tens of millions of dollars when we honestly wouldn't trust many of them to build a birdhouse? Hell many of them we openly admit couldn't spell birdhouse.

    Nothing will ever change until fans have an actual voice in the fight. Until we are taken seriously.
    But believe that no matter what we do or how we do it, the owners and players are going to fight back.

    Not gonna pay $20 parking? Gonna take the bus or train to the stadium? Raise rates on the buses and trains running to the stadium.
    Not gonna pay $9 for a beer? Gonna sneak food and drink in? They'll revoke season tickets and or have the city fine you hundreds of dollars.
    Not gonna have cable and will stream the events you want to see? They'll have the laws changed to have viewers (not just hosters) of illegal streams prosecuted and fined.

    I have no idea if anything I just wrote makes any sense or stayed on topic, but I feel better.
  11. Poindexter

    Poindexter Reputation: ∞ Staff Member

  12. thumper

    thumper Picogrammy Staff Member

    ding ding ding. been saying this about the Ali Act but either nobody here is on my side or they just don't read my posts, because I've laid out several reasons this is needed. It's much more than just the fighters but that's at least 50% of it and Leslie didn't accomplish anything other than losing her job, which was obviously coming anyway, BECAUSE of her actions.

    She could have worked behind the scenes and actually maybe accomplished something
  13. ATJ-Lucko

    ATJ-Lucko Champ-Champ

    you got a source??

    because 9 years ago clay Guida got

    $50,000 ($25,000 to show, $25,000 to win)

    and his last fight he got

    $79,000 ($59,000 to show, $20,000 fight week incentive pay)
    --- Post Added -- Mar 10, 2019, ---
    i like to see a 50/50 split and fighters having fair contracts, some of the Ali Act needs to be brought into MMA, right now the UFC is fucking over the fighters big time, but the fighters are too stupid and greedy to organize, so they get what they deserve.
  14. Cat--Smasher

    Cat--Smasher Putting the stamp on kids Staff Member

  15. Poindexter

    Poindexter Reputation: ∞ Staff Member

    Nice to see Ariel act like a bitch for no reason.
  16. thumper

    thumper Picogrammy Staff Member

    It shouldn't be a surprise that the puppet's head is getting bigger now that ESPN is sucking up to him to get that juicy UFC info
    Poindexter likes this.
  17. Noise

    Noise Ruido

    I wonder if Mr. Yang bothered to check Viacom's pay structure numbers too.
  18. SandyWH


    Of course I have a source. It’s my fucking eyeballs.
    You’re gonna cherry pick one fighter to put out as an example?
    Clay Guida was a marquee name 5 years ago. Today he’s an undercard fighter. The pay is different there.
    Shit I could go and show you Khabib’s pay from 5 years ago and then his last fight and prove that the pay increase is 122x greater. Doesn’t make it true.

    UFC 156 feb 2013
    Lowest pay on the card was $8000/$8000
    Main Event was $120,000 /$120,000 (Edgar v Aldo)
    Highest Salary was Rashad Evans at $300,000

    UFC on Fox 11 April 2014
    Lowest pay was $8,000/$8,000
    Main Event was $125,000/$50,000
    Highest salary was Werdum at $175,000/$50,000
    2 fighters made over $100,000 (w/o OTN bonus)

    UFC 235 March 2019
    Lowest pay $12,000/$12,000
    Main event was $500,000
    High salary was $500,000
    9 fighters earned over $100,000 (w/o OTN bonus)
  19. ATJ-Lucko

    ATJ-Lucko Champ-Champ

    Lowest pay in 6 years went from 8k to 12k, thats not much.

    look at UFC Fight Night: Błachowicz vs. Santos, the lowest paid fighter made this amount

    Chris Fishgold: $23,500 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 win bonus, $3,500 fight week incentive pay)
    Ismail Naurdiev: $23,500 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 win bonus, $3,500 fight week incentive pay)
    Marcos Rogerio de Lima: $23,000 ($18,000 to show, $5,000 fight week incentive pay)
    Polo Reyes: $23,000 ($18,000 to show, $5,000 fight week incentive pay)
    Lucie Pudilova: $18,000 ($14,000 to show, $4,000 fight week incentive pay)
    Carlo Pedersoli Jr.: $15,500 ($12,000 to show, $3,500 fight week incentive pay)
    Daniel Teymur: $13,500 ($10,000 to show, $3,500 fight week incentive pay)
    Veronica Macedo: $13,500 ($10,000 to show, $3,500 fight week incentive pay)

    then look at UFC Fight Night 24 in 2011

    Mackens Semerzier: $12,000 ($6,000 to show, $6,000 to win)
    Alex Caceres: $8,000
    Christian Morecraft: $12,000 ($6,000 to show, $6,000 to win)
    Sean McCorkle: $10,000
    Michael McDonald: $10,000 ($5,000 to show, $5,000 to win)
    Edwin Figueroa: $6,000
    Aaron Simpson: $30,000 ($15,000 to show, $15,000 to win)
    Mario Miranda: $10,000
    Johny Hendricks: $26,000 ($13,000 to show, $13,000 to win)
    T.J. Waldburger: $8,000
    Nik Lentz: $30,000 ($15,000 to show, $15,000 to win)
    Waylon Lowe: $12,000

    Daniel Teymur just got paid 13k, while Waylon Lowe got paid 12k in 2011.
  20. SandyWH


    And Edwin Figueroa only made $6,000

    But don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the pay rates or pay scales.
    It's certainly better than it once was. But no where near what it should be.

    I'll scream it until I'm blue in the face.......until these fighters get "real" agents negotiating their contracts this is what we're gonna see. Its no coincidence that the highest paid fighters in the company have at least had "real" agents advising them.

    The TUF contracts are bullshit. And these guys that sign 5-fight deals to be the unaired prelim fighters are doing themselves a huge disservice. I understand that it is their "dream" to fight for UFC. But realizing your dream can quickly become a nightmare if you're stuck in a bad contract.

    $12,000 3 times a year, plus bonuses, plus sponsors isn't a bad living. It beats a cubicle. An American fighter could easily earn $70,000 in annual UFC related pay on top of his seminars and instructions earnings ($10k-30k annually). That is obviously less than what Bryce Harper will make per game. But its better than working the counter at Chipotle.

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