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How Would You Fix MMA?

Discussion in 'MMA University' started by ILJO, Mar 19, 2015.

?

Does MMA need to change?

  1. Everything's fine, stop whining.

    27.6%
  2. This shit is broken, yo! (explain)

    72.4%
  1. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    What would you change/fix if you could? My post is about rules and judging criteria, but feel free to talk about whatever you think would make things better.

    - - - - - added to post - - - - -


    PRIDE rules + elbows would be the absolute shit, imo. That's how I would make it if I could. Although I might keep round-by-round scoring (to make it less subjective/corruptible), I would just have the criteria be more damage/finish oriented 1, PRIDE style.



    Side note: 1 - technically the unified rules' judging criteria wouldn't even have to change to accomplish this. It would just take a minor shift in the interpretation of the word "effective" (i.e "effective striking" would mean who did more damage and thus came closer to finishing [knockdowns/stuns/significant strikes/volume/accuracy/etc.] while minimizing their own risk, "effective grappling" would favor the one threatening with more/closer submission attempts and/or dominating position IF it leads to damaging GnP or sub attempts, and "effective aggression" would go to the one who's offense accumulates in more damage/consistently comes closer to ending the fight [consistently cleaner/more significant strikes and/or consistently closer submission attempts] while minimizing their own risk. And for the sake of completeness, Octagon Control would be the one who dictates pace/decides where the fight takes place/controls range/etc [takedowns/takedown defense, footwork, ring generalship, etc.]).


    [HR][/HR]
    TL;DR - MMA/Combat sports exist to mimic real fights in a safer/more controlled environment. The real goal of a fight is to incapacitate your adversary. Point fighting serves no practical purpose. So it stands to reason that the scoring criteria should reflect the goal of the exercise (finishing), or the purpose is defeated.
     
  2. TriangleSmoke

    TriangleSmoke Motherfucker of the Century Site Donor

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    I'll have to put more thought into this, but generally speaking I would definitely have the scoring system changed to something like the old Pride scoring system. 12 to 6 elbow rule: gone. Knees and upkicks to a downed opponent would be legal. I'm not sure about soccer kicks even though they're awesome to watch.

    i like this
     
  3. disposableassassin

    disposableassassin Tainted supplement distributor Site Donor

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    I'm all for a modification of the scoring system. I like things being more like pride. I'm not a fan of stomps and soccer kicks though. I always enjoyed the first round being ten minutes.


    I'm going to put more thought into this and come back in a bit. Great thread man.
     
    ILJO likes this.
  4. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    I'm all for less rules. I know that makes it more dangerous, but it's fighting ffs. Danger is the name of the game. Don't sign up if you're not willing to get hurt. Stomps and soccer kicks all day!! The more tools you give someone, the more interesting it becomes, imo. Having some of these (arbitrary) rules is like playing chess without some of your pieces.

    And I agree with Triangle about that stupid 12 to 6 elbow, but definitely about the knees to grounded opponents. It was great for countering wrestlers if you stuffed the shot and ended up holding on to that headlock position. The one issue is that a lot of those seemed to stray to the back of the head, so I would have to consider how I feel about that (possibly redefine the borders/boundaries or whatever). Because a knee to the back of the head like that would probably have to be a point deduction if it was illegal, and it would probably happen a bit too often.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  5. RearNakedSmoker

    RearNakedSmoker Runnin' with the Devil

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    Start by firing Dana White. :DW:

    I could get behind some rule changes. The main one being get rid of that front kick to the knee.
     
  6. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    Did they enforce the back of the head rule in PRIDE? I don't remember. I know they did it when they came to the US and were sanctioned by the commission, but what about besides that?
     
  7. ATJ-Lucko

    ATJ-Lucko MMAtheist

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    - get rid of the 10 point system

    - get rid of weight cutting

    - have mma have its own sanctioning body and not under The Association of Boxing Commissions

    - Score fights based on damage and effort to finish the fight

    - remove elbows to a grounded opponent

    - allow knees to a grounded opponent unless you have both hands and feet on the ground.

    just a few things, off the top of my head
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
    Hassquatch likes this.
  8. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    Weight cutting is a good one. The sport would definitely be better off without it. I don't really know the best way to go about that though (or even a good way). Same day weigh-ins has led to more injuries/problems in the past, if I'm not mistaken, so I don't know how safe that is. I'm sure lots of people will still try to cut too much weight (at first anyway) and put themselves in danger. It may work in the long run but I think it would cause lots of problems short term and put fighters at a greater risk for serious injuries, or worse.


    Wasn't there some commissioner talking about weighing people throughout their camps and making sure they don't lose more than a certain percentage of their total body weight? I seem to recall something like that, but nothing ever came of it. It's a decent thought though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  9. Rise

    Rise Well-Known Member

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    - Agreed with getting rid of the weight cutting

    - Judging criteria adjusted to score more based on overall round effectiveness. As well as more liberal use of 10-10 rounds for close rounds.

    - More incentive laden contracts for fighters that award for effective statistics (strikes, submission attempts, reversals/sweeps etc.)

    - Lower training camp times. Schedule fights with less then 8 weight notice. Eliminate the excessively long training camps that promote injuries and delays.

    - Move Dana behind the scenes where he doesn't do anything press or media related

    - Get rid of Rogan and Golberg they are getting worse all the time

    - Eliminate the oversaturation of UFC Events and stack PPV cards with better all around talent and name value.

    - Bellator goes back to their system of building name from within instead of bringing in past their prime UFC stars (and no cross promotion with pro wrestling)
     
    ATJ-Lucko and ILJO like this.
  10. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    Very good call on the 10-10's. I spent like half a year harping on that, can't believe I forgot to mention it.


    And your training camp point reminded me of another thought I had. Some people are going to strongly disagree, but I don't like the way these guys specialize their camps to prepare for 1 specific opponent. It bothers me when the better/more well rounded fighter with more tools loses because the other guy had a Greg Jackson in his corner that broke everything down and trained the guy for 3 months on how to dip when he dabs and to step this way when he steps that way and throw this technique when he throws that technique.

    I'd much rather see 2 guys who spent their camps focusing on improving themselves, and then seeing who developed the better style and techniques. PRIDE had a bit of this element with the way the fighters didn't always know who they were going to fight until like a week out, and with the tourney's obviously including multiple opponents.

    I think that holds more true to the spirit of martial arts and better imitates real fights (going back to my original post). If you think about it, it's kind of weird to get so much time to dissect everything about your opponent. I mean, sure it adds another level/element to the game, I just don't appreciate the inauthenticity of it.

    You get to prepare to fight in a way you would never fight against anybody else
    . I don't like that. You should prepare to fight the way you would fight everybody else. Doesn't that make like infinitely more sense? Or is it just me?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  11. Rise

    Rise Well-Known Member

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    From a personal standpoint I'd like to see them just decide certain PPV's be about specific weight classes and have a selected number of fighters show up for that night not really knowing who there match ups are going to be. They can shuffle the fights easily enough based on injuries if they have a bunch of guys all around the same rankings fighting that night. Fighters won't pull out before hand because they don't like opponent switches as well. Gets rid of the game planning that can at times lead to less exciting fights. Proves a trainers real value when they can implement changes and game plans on the fly.

    Downside as a promoter you lose a lot of the promotional tools you can use with announced bouts. I'd still expect title matches to be announced in advance at least

    It would be great to see the difference it would make if guys were working solely on rounding out their skillsets instead of focusing on countering specific opponents
     
  12. ATJ-Lucko

    ATJ-Lucko MMAtheist

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    Well you bring up the UFC, i think iljo was talking more about mma in general, if we are now talking about the UFC than that is a longer list and a whole other discussion lol..

    fix the UFC:

    - Get rid of Dana White

    - Get ride of that awful 'face the pain' music

    - update music all around

    - Update graphics

    - Use a ramp

    - Titantron!!

    - Less events

    - Trim roster from over 600 to half 300

    - Fire Goldberg

    I think they are trying but they are competing with the UFC, WSOF, TITIAN, RFA and Legacy. Plus the UFC is signing up such much talent it is insane they have such a bloated roaster filled with prospects.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  13. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    Yeah that's kind of how I was thinking of it as well. Maybe like 8 fighters from 2-3 different weight classes each (4 fights in each weight class, 8-12 fights on the card). That way you'd have 7 potential opponents to have to prepare for (which should be good enough to achieve the purpose). But it would definitely need a main event like a title fight announced in advance, as you mentioned. But I could totally live with that:

    Hypothetically, if you had to work your way up through a system like that to eventually get a title shot, then chances are you've got a very well rounded game anyway, so the extra time to prepare for the opponent will be less notable than it otherwise would be with weaker competition (less blaring holes/predictable tendencies).

    And the pay scale for an event like that (aside from the main event) should be based not only on wins but finishes. Have everybody at like 50 to show, 50 to win (or 25/25 or whatever the situation calls for). Then another 25-50 if you finish. Or something along those lines.

    I think a system like that might actually work. And the fans would probably love it despite only 1 real fight to promote, because everybody will be training and going for the finish. It would deliver every time. Well not every time, but you get the point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  14. jesusatemyhotdog

    jesusatemyhotdog Welcome to the machine.

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  15. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    Consider yourself banned from this thread.
     
  16. Poindexter

    Poindexter Reputation: ∞ Staff Member

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    More 10-10 rounds for rounds where there is no clear advantage. More 10-8 rounds with emphasis on knock downs/near finishes. Stomps to downed opponent's heads. Knees to downed opponent's heads. Up kicks allowed always. All elbows allowed. Less reward for wrestling control with little no offense. Fouls given after the first unintentional offense, for eye pokes, toe punts to the taint, etc.

    Severe penalties for steroid users, from the first offense. Regular review of referee and judges performances with accountability for errors and inexplicable decisions. Minimum yearly base salary for fighters signed by the UFC that comfortably allows for living and training expenses and then is incentivized for good performances.

    Finishing bonuses for every fight in addition to winning bonuses. More experimenting with, and fine tuning, of production techniques. Yearly "all-star" events that allow for fights between weight classes, celebrity bouts, freakshow fights, and masters division bouts.
     
  17. thumper

    thumper all around great guy Staff Member

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    the changes needed to mma are needed by the comission IMO, not to the sport, it's not broken, it's the judging and governance that needs work
     
  18. ILJO

    ILJO Soggy Bottom Boy Site Donor

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    Good post, PD. I agree with most of that but I singled out one thing I wasn't too sure about (not in theory, but in application)

    As good as that sounds, how would that actually work? What do you mean by accountability? Who draws the lines?

    Judging is subjective and there's 3 of them for a reason (that is, they're not necessarily expected to agree, or even to see the same fight since they're purposely placed across from each other in different vantage points). So where do you draw the line? And who gets to decide? I mean, there's not really such a thing as inexplicable if your job is to use your own judgement based on what only you could see from your perspective. Not to say horrible calls haven't been made, but it's kind of inevitable/inherent to the process so it's pre-justified.

    I think outside of proven corruption or blatant incompetence a judge will never be disciplined or held accountable or whatever. I used to think that was bullshit but now it makes sense to me. That's the way it needs to be imo, because you can't afford to open that can of worms. It's a slippery slope that leads to nothing but problems. But the good news is that either way, even if they're worth disciplining, the answer is to educate them. That's the key regardless.


    There's kind of a similar argument to be made for refs, but they do much more than make judgement calls so they should definitely be held accountable if they otherwise make errors.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  19. Trodden

    Trodden The autumn air Thickly fills my lungs So sweetly

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    when the fight gets boring, let the audience throw weapons in there
     
  20. Rise

    Rise Well-Known Member

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    The UFC stuff I mentioned would help MMA as whole though ;)
     

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