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Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by CrunkJuice, Sep 11, 2009.
Yes I do.
As for the people that like to pronounce "they knew it was gonna happen and allowed it" all I can offer is some logic.....
At the time the gov't received hundreds of terrorist threats a day. Most credible threats were investigated. Many were completely unphathomable.
Tell me honestly....prior to 9/11 if you got reports that there was:
-a bomb in a car
-a bomb in a subway
-chemical threat to a sporting event
-sniper at a church
-or 4 planes were going to be highjacked and used to fly into the White House, Twin Towers, & Pentagon by men only carrying razor blades
which one of those do sound credible?
Now we know....don't sleep on any intel....but at he time.....
Additionally, I know I live in a corrupt country that has many secrets and does a lot of dirty underhanded shit, but I have to believe, if only for my sanity, that our gov't wouldn't allow the slaughter of hundreds of American lives on American soil in order to benefit someone's pocket.
If that day comes, I might as well put a bullet in my mouth.
and anyone that thinks so now, should go ahead and do the same.
I feel that 9/11 was the greatest victory the enemies of America ever achieved.
The taliban is stronger than ever.
As a result of decisions made right after, the permanent balance between the 3 branches of government is forever skewed. The executive branch has WAY too much power (that's a non-partisan statement) and government self-regulation is now out of the question.
America is strictly divided by groups of people who speak with all emotion and no fact, leading to nothing productive getting done.
We've slashed our civil liberties and taken so many steps to take freedoms away in the defense of freedom. Flying is a great example; old ladies get their water bottles taken away, and every month or so a reporter does a story getting by security with knives and bottles. Much restriction for little to improvement.
They showed EXACTLY what our weakness is: rather than our symbols just being representative of our strong ideals, they proved you can attack our symbols and our ideals will fall.
Believe what story?
There's nothing to believe. We know the events of 9/11.
Being a New Yorker I can assure you that why it happened is still secondary to the fact that it did happen.
That being said, it's a painful day to reflect upon if only for the fact that in the years since 9/11 we've seemed to learn nothing from the past, nothing about the consequences of our foreign policies, and have done little to education ourselves in the dangers of emotional and fanatical persuasion.
Any glimmer of hope that could have been extracted from the events of that day, have been thoroughly eschewed in favor of the same ol' same ol' justifiable violence.
Exactly. I seen some great points on some 911 conspiracy theories, but it would be too fucked up to imagine if the gov. had something to do with 3000 Americans dying. That would make this country no different than Iran.
If this country did have something to do with it, why wouldn't every conspiracy theorist try to get like minded people together and declare war on the Government? That would have to happen at that pointto to make any kind of change for the better. I don't understand the point of all these acccusations, if they're not going to do anything about it.
The Black Panthers at least took action when they felt the gov. was trying to kill Blacks. And for the most part, with most of their blood being spilled, a change had come.
There is no "official" 9/11 story. There are the facts, and there are paranoid fantasies.
BTW, what is the purpose of still going after the Taliban? Was is a fact that they protected Osama Bin laden, because they never admitted to it?
What is going on with Osama right now? Why are we in a war with the Taliban instead of focusing our energies on Osama?
I personally believe Bin Laden is dead. But for the sake of both sides, a living Bin Laden is the best possible scenario.
For terrorists: they have the hope that they can hide forever from the evil Americans. That they will certainly have the ability to wage war on the infidel. Killing Bin Laden means America will find you, they will kill you, and their spirit to overcome is strong
For Americans: it gives us a reason to keep hunting, and not in a war profiteering sort of war either. But as long as we are hunting for Bin Laden, the terrorists are on the move and not settling in. Our gaurds are at the ready, domestically and foreign. To kill Bin Laden would mean to end the war on terrorism and to revert back to the nation that was blinded by their own narcisism to the point that it took flying planes into building for us to understand that the world hates us for who we are and what we represent. (and that is the freedom to beleive whatever we want)
A dead Bin Laden could never benefit America. It materizes the man. Many more will rise up in revenge of him, or will lokk to take his place, meaning that there will be multiple Bin Ladens instead of one.
I think there's too many unanswered questions and too many things that simply don't add up in regards to 9/11. As far as our gov't attacking its self goes, governing bodies through out history have done this, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. I'm not saying thats what happened but it's definately plausible. Regardless alot of innoccent ppl lost their lives, and those are the ppl who should be honored today.
Can someone find me some actual numbers:
How many police and firemen died?
How many building workers died?
How passenfgers on the planes died?
So what are you saying? You think Bush attacked America?
Hell the US has attacked its own numerous times to garner support for an agenda. See "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" for a prime example....
The long and the short of it, is that as the world becomes more globalized, and giant banks garner more and more control, the agenda of the few elite will be cast down upon the plebian masses.
Watch WTC Building 7 fall. It was a controlled demolition.
> look at how it fell - in free fall
> take note of the numerous reports from police/firefighters hearing numerous explosions long after the planes hit the twin towers coming from WTC 7
> the lean holder for WTC 7, has admitted they decided to "pull it"
> military grade thermite has been identified in the rubble
Now the twin towers/hijacking etc has it own hornets nest of issues, but WTC 7, IMHO, is the clearest example of a controlled demolition. To say that a fire caused boilers to explode which led to a free falling collapse is just illogical, impossible, and ridiculous.
* Bin Laden was armed/trained/supported by the CIA in the 80's in Afghanistan in the War against the Soviets.
Call me crazy, but its a lot easier to forget a shocking tragedy, than to meticulously go over it with a fine toothed comb.
I will say this though, if you sit back, and take whats fed to you long enough, it is only apart of a natural progression to become complacent in a forced feeding.
Islamic extremists are some crazy fuckers. They will cut your fucking head off. BUT dont be stupid enough to think that our Government is not capable of far worse. Throughout our nations history we have consistently committed great acts of genocide. See native americans, WW2, Vietnam, Gulf War 1, and Gulf War 2. Havent seen much in the way of stories coming from Afghanistan short of the contractors stationed there buying and selling women.... Surely as time passes well hear more and more about that bad shit we are doing right now, with our tax dollars.
Read up and watch. The history channel is not a reliable source for information. Ive found people are quick to point out the inaccuracy and general bias present in our news media. But those same people will flip right over to the history/discovery/military channel and take whatever they see/hear as gospel truth. They may not think thats whats happening, but they will regurgitate the information communicated to them on television and spit it right back out during a conversation. Again, just natural when your constantly bombarded with information. It really goes that way across the board. Even with indie documentaries and the like. They are all about 70% bullshit or more. You have got to read between the lines and draw your own conclusions, but only after putting in the time, and effort necessary to do so.
Here are my thoughts:
Saudi members of Al Quida(sp?) crashed planes into the Twin Towers, destroying them and killing 3,000 Americans. President Bush vowed to bring the terrorists to justice. To do that he must go THROUGH the Taliban, who harbored their mastermind. He attacked Afghanistan, toppled the Taliban and began the hunt for Bin Laden. Here's where it goes south...
He decides to then invade a soverign nation that had nothing to do with the Twin Tower attacks. This decision destroyed their SECULAR government and (eventually) replaced it with an ISLAMIC EXTREMIST government. This cost thousands of lives and has accomplished NOTHING but dividing our country and killing our military members.
Barack Obama was elected with the promise to pull out of Iraq and finish the war in Afghanistan. Obama does NOT pull anyone out of Iraq, but DOES commit more military power to continue to fight the Taliban.
NEITHER of these two "leaders" have captured the terrorist mastermind, nor are our military even FIGHTING the individuals who attacked us, rather insurgents in the Iraq (which we helped create) and Taliban fighters in Afghanistan (who we were supposed to go THROUGH to get to the individuals who attacked us).
Meanwhile, the World Trade Center has not been rebuilt, but billions have been spent to rebuild the two countries that we have destroyed.
But at least we have to take off our shoes at the airport.....
I'm not saying anyone did anything, I'm just saying it's possible.
This. Read 1984 and you'll understand what I mean. If you attack your own country and blame "country B", you've basically given yourself a free pass to do what ever the fuck you want to because more often then not in war times the masses don't question their leaders descisions/ actions. After 9/11 who did we go after? Al Quida? Bin Laden? No, Saddam Hussain. Do you have any idea how many freedoms we lost because of 9/11? Again, I'm not saying this what happened. We don't and probably never will know the truth.
No way Bush couldn't organize a baseball little league game. He nor Cheney had anything to do with it. But Cheney sure did make allot of his friends and the whole Military industry billionaires.
It also lead us into a wrong war in Iraq.
I don't believe in what the media is saying, and I don't believe the conspircy theorists. No one knows the truth.
I don't know, and to be honest 7 years later I don't care. It was some bullshit, and I feel very bad for the people who were killed, and the families of the ones that were never found. RIP
Oh, goddamn it.
No, it didn't. The columns and the debris cloud were both falling faster than the building itself.
Which mean exactly dick unless you have further evidence to explain what they were or that they actually happened.
Which is referring to pulling firefighter teams from the building, as the very person you are referring to has explained. "Pull it" in terms of demolition only refers to pulling buildings down with cables -- which was definitely not done with any of the WTC buildings.
Bullshit. Someone spotted some yellow on an UNDATED photo from ground zero on a girder -- a girder that was cut cleanly, which thermite would not be able to do.
Which says what about 9/11, exactly?
Source? I can't find anything confirming (or even mentioning) this.
If only you were actually going over the facts half as meticulously as you claim to be.
Paranoia does not equal evidence.
You finding a story plausible is not evidence.
The History Channel has shows about possessions and UFOs. They are entertainment media. Who is referencing them as a source, anyway?
Joe Rogan said it best when he said that OBL is a Comic Book Bad Guy.....A Billionaire who hates us and lives in a cave and mysteriously slips away every time we almost catch him.
God Bless the 2,974 lives we've lost and the thousands of troops we've lost since in needless wars to take control of the Oil Fields of Central Asia so that we have standing armies in the area to deter China and Russia from doing the same.
Read Zbignew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard" to further your comprehension.
Anybody that thinks people in caves stood down Norad has drank the Kool Aid IMHO.
OBL was trained by the CIA in the 80s and his Islamic Fundamentalist funded as a Bulwark against Soviet Communism spreading into the Middle East.
I don't know what happened but I follow the money in a profit driven society.....that leads me to the Military Contractors. Giant Private Mercenary Armies who exist because of the Military Industrial Complex.
We have captured 100,000 Muslims, systematically tortured them and then released 99% of them bc they are innocent.....We have created another generation of Bad Guys to point our finger at and say that is the bad guy they hate us.....no shit we tortured them from innocence to evil....and as a result we will be fighting them for the next hundred fucking years.
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't know what happened.
All I know is it doesn't matter what happened; the event itself has become the world's most exploited symbol. Nations have been built and fallen because of it, people have become billionaires and others tortured and killed because of it, the definitions of words like "freedom" and "patriotism" have been twisted because of it. EVERYONE uses that day to further their own interests, whether it's selling coins with effigies that stand out or declaring war on nations that "threaten our security" or selling songs to appeal to some sense of pride or collecting donations that magically disappear before they're ever used. It spawned one of the most disgusting frenzies of self-interest this world has ever seen and most of us should be ashamed by our reactions.